Diving with a computer/watch

[redacted]

I don't know about the litigation angle of this. And I concede that there may be limited situations where swimming next to someone else and relying on their computer may not put a diver at much of a risk for DCS.

But PROMOTING this practice to new divers is a terrible idea, because they may not be able to always distinguish between situations where it's OK and where it isn't. And the worst thing about promoting it isn't that they might get bent, but that it sends the message that situational awareness and self reliance aren't really important as long as you are diving with an "experienced diver". Hey, why have them check their air? Someone else can do it as long as it is done "conservatively".

If you can afford a dive trip, you can afford a $200 dive computer, or at least a $50 watch.

Yes, I agree and would be much less concerned with experienced divers doing this, perhaps to complete a dive rather than abort it unnecessarily due to a computer problem. But I also prefer to see people equipped with the correct knowledge and skill to do things safely rather than poorly contrived rules designed primarily to protect them from their lack of knowledge.

But I am concerned with the "legal shadow" many scuba professionals seem to like to cast with little to no legal basis.

 

[edwants2dive]

Ok I am going to throw in my $.02, I am a newly certified diver and yes our instructor took care of the dive planning but that was in class where he is responsible for our saftey.
I made it my proirity to obtain the equipment I needed BEFORE I would spend the money on an expensive dive trip. I did my research and looked at many options before deciding on my setup. I weighed cost vs features, reviews on the equipment and what I was going to be comfortable using ( I am an IT professional in my surface life so technology comes easy to me). I have spent many hours reading about diving and trying to gain as much knowledge as possible about it. One common theme I keep seeing is that YOU are responsible for your own safety and should always keep that mindset! Remember that if you have an issue underwater you are the one who is going to be injured or worse. Don't get in the mindset that your buddy (however experienced they are) is responsible for your safety.All that said my advice is to either spend the money on your own computer or practice using tables don't "wing" it.

 

[oly5050user]

Once again with the lawyer card!!!

Have you got any documented examples or is this just the chicken little cry?

Sure, it is much better to be in control of your dive and sharing someone's gauges can be dangerous if you are pushing limits. Of course the training agencies discourage this as they are in the same boat as manufacturers (they are dependent on each other). But this is really not all that dangerous of a practice as long as it is done conservatively.

No training agency, no computer manufacture recommends or allows sharing a dive computer. All a lawyer has to do is show all agency's recommendations, manufactures instructions of use, and monetary awards are given out. Even other passengers on the liveaboard may sue for their lost investment on a canceled trip due to this careless action. We live in a very litigious society and it's better to cover your ass than to be sorry you did not. I know that if I invested thousands of $$$$ and time to go on a trip and it's canceled because of some dumb action recommended by the crew that is not an accepted industry standard , caused someone needing medical care and the boat required to return to port thereby canceling the trip, I would like a refund on all expenses, and if need be will sue to get it.

 

[Patoux01]

No training agency, no computer manufacture recommends or allows sharing a dive computer.

Nor do the agencies make the laws...

 

[dmaziuk]

For heaven's sake folks, diving is not a completely safe activity. I am speechless that a live aboard would allow someone to dive without computers (or tables) following other divers. It is easy to be deeper than someone else and not really realize that you are.

The devil's in the details. New divers are typically limited by air, there's little chance of them blowing past the NDL. If there's hard bottom at or above the rec limit, no way they can go "too deep". Doing it for a "few days" is where I might start getting uncomfortable without keeping track of the residual loading, but if you stick to "nice" profiles with long SSes and SIs... you should probably be OK. As long as nothing bad happens and lawyers don't get involved.

There's plenty of people who dived for e.g. sponges without timers or tables and lived.

 

[oly5050user]

Nor do the agencies make the laws...

True..but if a standard of pratice is not followed and an incident occurs a slick lawyer will use that to his advantage to convince a jury that unsafe , non industry methods was recommended by the crew who are claiming themselves to be professionals and that can leave them open to a law suit due to negligence.
Anyone can be sued for anything. Why make it easy to be sued?
A dive pro should always ask themselves if the action they recommend is what a reasonably prudent instructor would do.

 

[doctormike]

Yes, I agree and would be much less concerned with experienced divers doing this, perhaps to complete a dive rather than abort it unnecessarily due to a computer problem. But I also prefer to see people equipped with the correct knowledge and skill to do things safely rather than poorly contrived rules designed primarily to protect them from their lack of knowledge.

I don't understand. What's the knowledge and skill, and what's the poorly contrived rule?

The OP asked how he/she would time safety stops without a timing device. Are you saying that it's a reasonable alternative for new divers to learn the skills that they need to guess their bottom time? Is the poorly contrived rule that you need to have some sort of timing device? I'm a bit confused...

I mean, I guess that you could just have new divers go to a shallow reef and tell them to be up with 500 PSI and leave it at that, assuming that dive time and NDL won't come into play, but that's not a great practice to be actually suggesting to a new diver.

 

[Land Fish]

I made it clear that I was inexperienced and I was sharing my personal experience only. It's highly litigious environment in the States, I get it. One ought to be cautious, I get that too. For better or worse, in Asia-Pacific region, no so much, and people are generally a bit more relaxed about liabilities and more encouraging when they come across rookies. The two guys' team we went for a couple of dives, perhaps they wanted to show off in front of girls, maybe they were just being kind like a lot other divers we had the pleasure meeting through the trip, but we wouldn't know for sure and we were grateful regardless. The other couples/groups that we followed, I don't believe they had any hidden agendas. What was I "implying"? Simple, that there are good people out there. By the way, I did recommend renting a computer if not buying, didn't I? This is a hardcore diving forum, and there's no place for a newbie to make mistake. I should have know better.

 

[Centrals]

I made it clear that I was inexperienced and I was sharing my personal experience only. It's highly litigious environment in the States, I get it. One ought to be cautious, I get that too. For better or worse, in Asia-Pacific region, no so much, and people are generally a bit more relaxed about liabilities and more encouraging when they come across rookies. The two guys' team we went for a couple of dives, perhaps they wanted to show off in front of girls, maybe they were just being kind like a lot other divers we had the pleasure meeting through the trip, but we wouldn't know for sure and we were grateful regardless. The other couples/groups that we followed, I don't believe they had any hidden agendas. What was I "implying"? Simple, that there are good people out there. By the way, I did recommend renting a computer if not buying, didn't I? This is a hardcore diving forum, and there's no place for a newbie to make mistake. I should have know better.

Welcome to SB.
I am surprised that the operator did not raise the question first when you signed up for the trip. BTW, most hard core divers would have dive with at least two computers or have a spare one or two sitting in the room! So no one offer you the spare one?

 

[doctormike]

I made it clear that I was inexperienced and I was sharing my personal experience only. It's highly litigious environment in the States, I get it. One ought to be cautious, I get that too. For better or worse, in Asia-Pacific region, no so much, and people are generally a bit more relaxed about liabilities and more encouraging when they come across rookies. The two guys' team we went for a couple of dives, perhaps they wanted to show off in front of girls, maybe they were just being kind like a lot other divers we had the pleasure meeting through the trip, but we wouldn't know for sure and we were grateful regardless. The other couples/groups that we followed, I don't believe they had any hidden agendas. What was I "implying"? Simple, that there are good people out there. By the way, I did recommend renting a computer if not buying, didn't I? This is a hardcore diving forum, and there's no place for a newbie to make mistake. I should have know better.

Well of course you are sharing your personal experience. This has absolutely nothing to do with litigation and everything to do with your safety. As an inexperienced diver, you were put in a dangerous situation. The overall relaxed nature of the trip doesn't really change the laws of physics. Diver physiology isn't any different in the "Asia-Pacific Region" This has nothing to do with being experienced or "hard core", you went diving and let someone else deal with the responsibility of monitoring important information during your dive. You can do what you like, there is no scuba police, but I certainly don't want any other new divers coming here, reading that and assuming that it's OK. THAT is why I had to respond to your post...

Look, don't get upset if you post something and people respond - if you actually read what I wrote you might learn something that could save your life someday. I have a good friend who did multiple chamber treatments and has residual neurological injury because of EXACTLY that - she was with some guy who told her "trust me" and they got in a lot of trouble.

What do you think I thought you were implying? You said that you cut some corners but that it "might have something to do with the fact that people are more accommodating with girls", followed by a winking smiley face. Can you tell me what you meant by that, if I got it wrong?

I'm pretty sure that Becky Kagan Schott or Jill Heinerth don't expect people to be more accommodating...