Stop steering new divers in North America towards DIN regulators

[Diving Dubai]

I've been DIN forever..

The only real PITA it that the manufacturers of the conversion insert (referred to previously here as a slug) can't seem to agree on a standard hex key size. I have both and Imperial and a metric hex key set in my kit and have still found Hex sizes I didn't have a key for.

Operators with old none convertible tanks only have to change the valve, which I guess happens by normal wear and teat of the valves on rental tanks rather than a concerted decision.

My Din to Yoke adapters have never been used when diving any operators, although I don't dive the US

 

[Lorenzoid]

I had my Hog D1 converted to yoke to avoid the hassles I was encountering with rental tanks. The adapter was annoying, and forgetting to bring it could mean not diving. Convertible valves with the removable insert are great, but as the OP pointed out, they are not without their own minor hassles. At dive resorts where many divers rent all their gear and they just load a bunch of air tanks on the boat I think they would be happy if everyone used yoke. I have been diving in Indonesia the past few weeks and saw very little use of DIN. I was glad I had my yoke reg. Heck, the DMs already had enough trouble understanding my BP/W and long-hose setup.

My doubles regs are of course DIN, but that's a different story. For recreational travel diving, I think yoke prevails.

 

[Caveeagle]

..., so I sold the Hog. I put the slugs back in and now only dive yolk regs again.

I bet you had no problem selling the HOG reg.

..I'm with 2airishuman, stop filling nOObs heads with crap about yolk not being good, they're fine.

Who said they weren't "good"? Yoke (not Yolk) regs/valves are just fine for recreational use. I, like many others prefer DIN, and see no problem explaining why. I see NO reason an entry level rec diver should steer clear of them. Its just a non issue. If you are a person who thinks a DIN/Yoke adapter is too much trouble to use/carry, then just get Yoke regs. No problem!

And if price of regs is an issue then buy good used stuff and learn to service your own regs. That's what's actually new and going on in the dive world: learning to be self sufficient...

...Ok, so we can't tell 'Noobs' the potential benefits of DIN regs, but we CAN tell them to go buy used regs and "learn to service" them on their own? There are really only a couple options for the most divers to be trained on this (Ironically, HOG being one), and they require a min tech cert as a pre-req. So if you have already decided to go down the advanced/tech route, I think the argument for DIN is even stronger.

**At least this topic will help clear the air a bit and provide good perspective from both sides, helping new divers make an educated choice.

 

[rhwestfall]

but if we didn't push DIN, there wouldn't be deals on lightly used DIN equipment.....

 

[2airishuman]

This. Why would anyone encourage new divers to use a piece of kit which has inherent faults

Because it doesn't have any faults for the kind of diving they are likely to do, which will involve the use of tanks with yoke valves.

and one which they will outgrow if they get "serious" about diving?

Because by the time they really need a DIN regulator, they are going to need to make substantial changes and additions to their gear anyway.

Sooner or later DIN will dominate the North American market. The more customers that demand cylinders in that configuration, the sooner it will happen.

There has been gradual adoption in situations where it makes the most sense. No doubt that will continue. What makes you think that DIN will displace yoke for open-water training or entry-level rental gear? It has no advantages for anyone in those environments.

In the mean time, an adapter works fine.

It works, but it doesn't work fine. It puts the regs closer to your head, it adds to the total weight of your regulator set, it adds a step to gear setup and teardown, and it's an item that most DMs and many dive ops don't have on hand that could require you to call the dive if you forget it.

 

[tbone1004]

why do they need to make substantial changes to their reg sets? that is my whole argument, look at your END diving goals, and buy equipment appropriate for that. Nothing about the gear that I use for deep/long caves is insufficient for recreational diving.

I agree yoke is superior for training and big dive ops for reasons I mentioned above, however if you purchase your own tanks, DIN is often better, and I go back to my original point, I am NOT steering new divers towards din regulators. I am steering them to the only good deals to be had on new regulators, which unfortunately are all DIN, BUT I am also steering towards Dive Rite XT's right now and if you call and ask, they can be supplied in yoke from any of the dealers. Not that I do always say call, not order straight from the website.

Yes if I am going to some place where I suspect yoke regs will be used, I put my second stages on a yoke first stage because I don't like using the adapter if I don't have to, BUT I do carry one with me all the time, and if I have to use one, I have no problem doing so. When I am travelling for single tank regs, the yoke adapter is my "dust cover" so I screw that onto the end of the regulator instead of it's normal dust cap. Idiot proof.

Adding to the total weight is advantageous as most divers have sh!t trim anyway and any extra weight at their head will help to hopefully bring them flat.

 

[halocline]

There are a couple of issues with DIN valves that nobody has mentioned. One is that they are not designed to withstand the kind of abuse that rental environments in tropical climate present. They have exposed threads and are relatively prone to getting knocked out of shape if they get banged up enough. Yoke valves have survived decades of bad treatment in delivery trucks, getting tossed around cattle boats, being used in salt water and never rinsed, etc. DIN valves are unlikely to do as well in these kinds of environments over long periods of time. We'll see.

Another thing is the convertible valves. Try diving with one (with the insert installed) for a few months, every day, in salt water, without any rinsing, in a hot climate and then try to take the insert out on a small crowded rocking boat with a rusty old allen wrench. This sort of thing happens in a place like Cozumel all the time. Imagine what those threads are going to look like in a few years with salt water trapped in them on a daily basis.

DIN is excellent for divers that own their own tanks and can take care of them, or are renting tanks at a technical dive facility where they take care of their tanks. Another big advantage to DIN in restrictions is the lack of any entanglement hazard. I'm not so sure that the connection is significantly more secure. (it does "seem" that way, but that doesn't mean it's true) With DIN, the diver is responsible for the condition of the o-ring, i.e. the o-ring does not get abused with the tank. So comparing yoke valves with old abused o-rings to DIN valves is not really a fair comparison.

I use both routinely, I'm not biased either way. Yoke valves obviously are sufficient, otherwise there wouldn't be millions of them in use every day all around the world, for the last several decades.

The important thing for new divers is to get regulators that fit the tanks they will be using. For recreational, vacation divers in this part of the world that overwhelmingly means yoke. Maybe that will change over time, personally I doubt it, but you never know.

 

[JBFG]

I have DIN and used it everywhere I travel. Never had an issue. I used the adapter once. All the shops I used had either DIN tanks or converter valve. you just need to ask in advance!
Also locally the shops also have convertible valve on their rentals. I don't see an issue with DIN at all

 

[Storker]

The bigger issue is the cylinder pressures. There are no 300 bar yokes that I am aware of, and they found a loophole with the 232 DIN spec, so progress faltered since there are 232 rated yokes.

300 bar capability may well be a good reason for going DIN, provided you can get good 300 bar fills.

A 12L 300 bar tank and a 15L 232 bar tank hold the same amount of gas. The same for a 300 bar D7 and a 232 bar D8.5. However, the smaller tank/twinset has less buoyancy (3kg in both cases), which means that you need less weight. I still have a 200 bar 15L which hardly sees any use, since my total rig weight including the belt is 5 kg less than with the 300 bar 10Ls I'm using. For me, 5kg less weight is more important than the not very significant difference in gas capacity (about 10%).

Around here, no-one uses yoke. Everbody is DIN. To the chagrin of those who try to get rid of old gear that's been sitting in the basement for some years, since that gear more often than not is yoke.

 

[cbm32]

I started out with used yoke regs that I had serviced....breathing was still like sucking an egg through a straw.

So I bought new regs and went with DIN HOG's. I loved my HOG's, the DIN to yoke adapter....not so much. In fact, I disliked it enough that I finally bought an EDGE first stage instead of messing with the adapter all the time. I am a travel rec diver and I think I was able to use my HOG's without the adapter once or twice in about 250 dives.

Sooooo I have been from YOKE to DIN and back again I would never advise anyone to start out DIN.
But then, that's just me.