DumpsterDiver emergency ascent from 180'

[seeker242]

Half the people who have participated in this thread would likely be dead from this incident regardless of the minutiae or how big their pony was.

I don't think that's the case because most people would never even consider doing such a dive to begin with. And if you never do it, then obviously that will prevent all incidents

 

[HantsDiver]

Is the reason that people are particularly fond of al40s as bailout/deco bottles (apart from their volume and general size) that they tend to float horizontal, their total buoyancy (empty/full), or is it something else?

They do not float horizontally. And once you add a first stage and second stage and an spg (if you use one on a stage - which is a different topic).

The reasons they are popular in my opinion is:

1. The buoyancy characteristics. This is basically how much they pull us up and down in the water, especially as we breath the gas.
2. They are a convenient size. In the UK it's very very common to have ali7 (which are slightly larger) and these tend to be cheaper here. Technical divers buy there own tanks and therefore do not want a huge number of tanks to buy/service so we pick convenient ones.
3. It's small enough to be able to easily handle. It doesn't look intimidating like an ali80.

4 - and this one is going to be controversial. People get them because other people get them and they copy. Which is why in the UK it's so so popular to see an ali7 instead. It's not that we are physically different to Americans. We just do what everyone else does.

I'm going to be slightly controversial and say an ali7 is a better general stage cylinder than an ali40 (and I have both). But the reasons for that are personal to me and the dives I like to do. One of the big reasons for me is I can fill it with gas and use it for two easy boat dives deco and I like that rather than having to carry two on a boat.

 

[AZNetEng]

He should have had a submersible sub... With a support ship... And we could add in some safety divers and a chamber too... Okay, sarcasm off... You guy's would die down there... You are way over thinking it.. You don't play around, You go... I'm guessing , because I don't know him.. It went some thing like this... Mass air leak behind his head... Time for me to go... Adds some air to bc so it's a free assent ( No swimming ) and no extra air needed to fuel the body... keeps the assent rate in check to not cork... Shoots off his SMB and swaps to his pony when the back gas goes... Blows off any safety stop because he never went in to DECO and the SMB was in mono-filament line and felt safer up top...

Jim....

I imagine this is pretty much exactly what happened. At least, the progression of problem solving seems reasonable.

My takeaway from this thread and the comments is simply this. Taking nothing away from the skill exhibited (it is hard to argue the results, right?) the lesson is to not intentionally put yourself in a spot where you need that level of skill/problem solving. All the things we all know we need to do pre-dive, from maintenance on the equipment, to planning, even on a rec dive, to being as safe as you can be in the water, is what prevents the majority of us from dying.

In a completely different context... I ride motorcycles. There are some riders on the road that operate their bikes with a degree of recklessness (we call them squids) that it angers those of us that are safe riders. To ride how they do can be described as having skill at times, but it isnt something the majority of us would emulate. You can even admire the skill level demonstrated but know that it is stupid and dangerous to put yourself in a position to need it. There are factors (just like in diving) over which you have zero control over.

Both hobbies are not what the average person calls safe. They carry inherent risk of injury that no amount of planning, equipment, or mental approach will prevent. There is a line however from risky to downright stupid, and the line really isnt that fine.

 

[uncfnp]

Half the people who have participated in this thread would likely be dead from this incident regardless of the minutiae or how big their pony was.

I don't think that's the case because most people would never even consider doing such a dive to begin with. And if you never do it, then obviously that will prevent all incidents

Actually the incident was not the dive but rather the blown first stage. Imagine the reaction of the "typical vacation diver."

 

[Caveeagle]

I hate to pile on, but it's kind off surprising people are defending the "dive plan" because DD apparently has mad skills and survived the incident. Sure his relatively calm demeanor probably saved his life in this case. But aren't we supposed to plan for worst case? What if the first stage blew 2/3 mins later, or after some other complicating factor? Like maybe that shark bumping him with a freshly tagged fish?

I know many folks who make calculated decisions to cut a corner here and there. There is just a lot of signals here that too many corners were cut. This is not an example to be emulated at all.

 

[Schwob]

I hate to pile on, but it's kind off surprising people are defending the "dive plan" because DD apparently has mad skills and survived the incident. Sure his relatively calm demeanor probably saved his life in this case. But aren't we supposed to plan for worst case? What if the first stage blew 2/3 mins later, or after some other complicating factor? Like maybe that shark bumping him with a freshly tagged fish?

I know many folks who make calculated decisions to cut a corner here and there. There is just a lot of signals here that too many corners were cut. This is not an example to be emulated at all.

Yep.
But the resulting discussion is interesting...

 

[oldschoolto]

I dare say 90% of divers would be dead if that happened to them... He does have the skills and mind set to deal with stuff.. So , Let's give him a 40cu pony... It's not changing the outcome.. and we have no clue as to what was left in the 13cu pony.. He may have had the gas to do a safety stop and a little deco.. He could have had his son throw him a tank and go back down for the stop.. We don't know what his back tank was.. Maybe it was a HP120... I don't think anyone is saying that people should be doing what he did.. But, It sure as hell shows what a cool head and working the problem looks like..

Just look at the people who die in this sport with gas on their back and a working regulator... look at all the videos of divers going bat $hit crazy because their regulator fell out.. Or stealing the regulator out of the mouth of another diver and bolting to the surface... I'll say it again... Most divers are one breath away from being dead... The only thing keeping them alive is they never had a problem.. And that is a fact..

Jim...

 

[Blasto]

Hardly 90%. I know two people with limited diving skills and low regard for safety which are alive after similar incidents happened to them. One of them had rinsed their regulators twice a year - they figured regs were cheap anyway, not worth the bother.

This wasn't a close brush with death, just another careless dive. Regulator failure is the kind of issue redundant air supply is meant for, it's not the end of the world, not without an overhead or a deco obligation.

As long as you keep your head of course. In an emergency, you can typically survive for a few weeks without food, a few days without water, a few minutes without air, and a few seconds without your head.

 

[seeker242]

Actually the incident was not the dive but rather the blown first stage. Imagine the reaction of the "typical vacation diver."

The incident was that it happened solo @ 180' on a single tank. I find it unlikely that half of all vacations divers would simply die if that happened @ 40' with a buddy next to them.

 

[Altamira]

I dare say 90% of divers would be dead if that happened to them... He does have the skills and mind set to deal with stuff... Most divers are one breath away from being dead... The only thing keeping them alive is they never had a problem.. And that is a fact..

Jim...

While I agree with you that a lot of divers might have died under similar circumstances, deep, solo, and arguably the wrong sized pony bottle, but fortunately most recreational divers would not be doing the type of dives or profiles that DD does. So if a catastrophic reg failure occurred, they would probably be between 40-60 ft, with a buddy of some sort, and would most likely survive such an encounter. I think your comment about most divers being one breath away from being dead might be a bit of an exaggeration, if for no other reason than most divers are not usually found in those more difficult and challenging dive environments. As a rec diver, I have seen more than a few equipment malfunctions and dives that go sideways, and so far no one has died on any dive boat I have been on. Maybe I have just been lucky with the random group of divers I have encountered, but most are safe, reasonably competent divers, and appear to stay within their dive experience and capability envelope.