Dive Trip/Travel Insurance?

[Dogbowl]

I will give it a try!

It’s a weird policy. It’s clear it was not written by a native English speaker, or it might’ve been translated into English poorly.

And I’m not comfortable that the policy is governed under the laws of the European Union. I don’t understand what ramifications that will have for me as an Insured, so I’m not comfortable with it. Just my initial impressions.

 

[KeithG]

It’s a weird policy. It’s clear it was not written by a native English speaker, or it might’ve been translated into English poorly.

And I’m not comfortable that the policy is governed under the laws of the European Union. I don’t understand what ramifications that will have for me as an Insured, so I’m not comfortable with it. Just my initial impressions.

Note that as a resident of Idaho the policy provided to @Crystal A. will not be related to your policy (as a resident of Ontario) in any way shape or form except for the "marketing" name on the front of the brochure. These are not cloned iPhones.

Insurance is regulated at the province / state level. What is allowed or is mandatory differs widely. Especially across countries. Make sure you have a copy of the product that applies to your place of residence.

 

[outofofficebrb]

In my mind I have sort of a list of the possible misfortunes I can think of that might impact a dive trip, my vague guess at their probabilities, and my vague guess at the cost I might suffer as a result. (I also keep in mind that insurance companies know all of this with much more accuracy, which is why they find it profitable to sell us insurance.) Things that are low probability AND low cost aren't worth insuring to me. Missing a single day or even the first two days of a land-based resort isn't that costly as I see it. In hundreds of trips I have taken, I have never gotten sick at just that point in time at which it would have prevented me from diving for essentially the entire trip; I think that's a low probability. I can choose a liveaboard with a policy of awarding vouchers for canceled trips, which, while not an optimal resolution, is still worth something to me, as I'm only out of pocket the airfare, and in a lot of destinations I can probably still salvage the airfare by doing some land-based diving or sightseeing. I can lower the probabilities of some events by arriving two days early, leaving 5+ hours of time for international air connections, and those sorts of things.

The ONLY event I have been able to come up with that I perceive as being high-ish probability AND high cost is missing a liveaboard departure due to an (all too common these days) airline snafu, where there is no way at reasonable cost to catch up by boat with the liveaboard at sea. I wish I could buy insurance for only that. As I have said before, being reimbursed a few dollars for dinner and lodging while I wait for an airline to "allow to resume onward travel" is not what I consider a cost major enough to insure against; I am willing to count occasional relatively minor (compared to a $5000 liveaboard) costs like that as part of the cost of travel these days.


On an unrelated (I think) note, @outofofficebrb : when I plug numbers into those online insurance quote generators, should I be including the total cost of the trip, including airfare, the liveaboard/resort, side trips, and whatever else I have paid in advance? It occurs to me that an event that would trigger reimbursement of airfare AND diving--that is, the whole trip being canceled--would have to be limited to something like a major sickness or injury occurring soon before the departure date. That seems unlikely to me. More likely would be something like I mentioned above, where I miss only part of the trip. Why could I not plug in a smaller number of my choosing, so that I'm effectively capping my own reimbursement in order to lower the premium?

As @giffenk mentioned, you can choose what you want to be covered for. Just keep in mind that what you may make a claim for will only include up to the amount you specify so you will need invoices to tie into that amount. If you only want to cover airfare and the liveaboard, that is fine. It may also be worth looking at your credit card coverage and seeing what they will cover there then only insuring aspects of your trip that aren't covered with your credit card or for a specific worry. A major sickness or injury would likely be covered by DAN as mentioned above OR through your credit card benefits.

I say we start a business selling trip insurance people can understand. When I come across a product in a store that doesn't have a price on it or has some other serious lack of relevant information, I don't buy it. I am starting to feel like I should hire an attorney to find my dive insurance, at which point I just move on without buying any. Maybe one day we will have $10,000 liveaboard trips, and at that point we will re-visit the topic. Meanwhile, we will keep our DAN, keep playing the credit card miles to take super cheap or free flights, and hope for the best. Even DiveAssure doesn't seem to want to share terms until you have moved past the paying online stage, and I am not going to pay for insurance based on a verbal conversation with a sales agent.

Dive Assure shares terms and conditions of coverage at the very first page where you click Single or Annual trip insurance. Single-Trip Travel Insurance - DiveAssure it shows 3 boxes going down the page (Deluxe, Elite, Standard). Right under that are "review terms and conditions" and that is where I am pulling the fine print. When you purchase your policy, that is the same document you get. This document is not written in legalese which makes it so much easier to read. (I'm sure @Dogbowl will share with you how bad it can get when it is in legalese!) DAN makes you jump through a few more clicks to get the coverage fine print but it is still accessible online before purchase.

As for DAN trip cancellation and interruption - yes, it only covers sickness and injury if you have Guardian or Preferred. Guardian is per occurrence and Preferred is lifetime. That is no better than my credit card coverage - which actually covers more than just sickness or injury. Thanks for pointing that out, though - it is something I missed and is definitely another avenue you can use if the need ever arises.

 

[Dogbowl]

Note that as a resident of Idaho the policy provided to @Crystal A. will not be related to your policy (as a resident of Ontario) in any way shape or form except for the "marketing" name on the front of the brochure. These are not cloned iPhones.

Insurance is regulated at the province / state level. What is allowed or is mandatory differs widely. Especially across countries. Make sure you have a copy of the product that applies to your place of residence.

Agree. That is why I did not provide @Crystal A. with what was provided to me.

I asked for a policy specific to me as a resident of Ontario, Canada. I was assured that the copy I received was applicable to me. However, I cannot find anywhere on the policy that indicates where this policy applies, except that the laws of the European Union shall govern this policy. As I said before, I’m not comfortable with this.

FWIW, the policy I have is underwritten by GBG Insurance Limited, with an address in California, but is basically a UK company.

GBGI Limited trades principally as "The Global Benefits Group" ("GBG") a wholly owned subsidiary of GBGI is an insurance company incorporated in Guernsey with registration number 42729 is licensed by the Guernsey Financial Services Commission to conduct insurance business under the Insurance Business (Bailiwick of Guernsey) Law, 2002 as amended.

I agree with @outofofficebrb , that the Dive Assure policy is not written in legalese, and that’s why it doesn’t sound “professional” to me.

 

[KeithG]

@giffenk, can you tell me the exact name of your specific insurance policy

I have a Blue Cross All Inclusive Annual travel policy Short-stay frequent travellers - Ontario Blue Cross A link to the sample policy was provided by @outofofficebrb above in post #21. Here it is again. https://on.bluecross.ca/images/docs/Ont_Sample_Policy-en.pdf It is very comprehensive. No need for DAN or Diveassure.

Years ago we selectively purchased travel insurance on a trip by trip basis. We now travel more and so use a single annual policy to cover all of our travel as it worked out to be much cheaper and generally covers much more than many other products. Previously we would purchase RBC (Royal Bank of Canada) trip insurance through our travel agent (Squba Holidays) for each scuba trip at the time of booking. The RBC premium was approx 10% of the trip cost. We self insured any non scuba trip. Our first annual Blue Cross premium was less than what we were paying for a single trip and covered us all year for all types of travel. Since then our premiums have gone up because we have increased the length of trip and trip cancellation limits. These 2 items are the only "variables" that affect premiums.

Note that "Blue Cross" is just a marketing name. The actual insurance is provided by Canassurance Insurance Company. The product is valid in Ontario, Quebec and the eastern provinces. I have no idea what the Blue Cross product in western Canada looks like.

 

[Dogbowl]

I have a Blue Cross All Inclusive Annual travel policy Short-stay frequent travellers - Ontario Blue Cross A link to the sample policy was provided by @outofofficebrb above in post #21. Here it is again. https://on.bluecross.ca/images/docs/Ont_Sample_Policy-en.pdf It is very comprehensive. No need for DAN or Diveassure.

Years ago we selectively purchased travel insurance on a trip by trip basis. We now travel more and so use a single annual policy to cover all of our travel as it worked out to be much cheaper and generally covers much more than many other products. Previously we would purchase RBC (Royal Bank of Canada) trip insurance through our travel agent (Squba Holidays) for each scuba trip at the time of booking. The RBC premium was approx 10% of the trip cost. We self insured any non scuba trip. Our first annual Blue Cross premium was less than what we were paying for a single trip and covered us all year for all types of travel. Since then our premiums have gone up because we have increased the length of trip and trip cancellation limits. These 2 items are the only "variables" that affect premiums.

Note that "Blue Cross" is just a marketing name. The actual insurance is provided by Canassurance Insurance Company. The product is valid in Ontario, Quebec and the eastern provinces. I have no idea what the Blue Cross product in western Canada looks like.

Thanks for the link. I will read this and compare.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Cancellation reasons may be more extensive than you first think about. Do you have family (potentially) dependent upon you? Consider a parent, sibling or child passing away or getting seriously ill 1 week or even months before departure. All of a sudden you are called upon to provide supporting care and can not travel. You are fully healthy. Are you covered? And if something does happen, who gets covered? I remember reading about a couple where "he" got sick and was covered, but she was not covered since "she" was not sick. She was healthy and deemed free to travel. No insurance claim for her.

So cancellation is not always just about you.

I am aware. But I am trying to take into account the probability of any such event. Sure, the larger the pool of family members who could need your assistance, the more likely such an event is. Also, as I see it, it depends on the nature of the illness and the recovery period for that illness. Some major illness or injury, or death, is less likely than catching the flu. How much time is there between now--when I purchase cancellation insurance--and the trip? And in the event of a super-grave situation, being reimbursed for some vacation I had booked is going to be low on my list of concerns. It's all about probabilities and their costs, which the insurance companies have figured out with precision, and which the insurance companies are content to have us inflate in our minds. The premiums for what I see as any sort of useful coverage are not insignificant. DiveAssure quotes me well over $2000 for my wife and me (avg. age ~50) for Elite level policy (secondary insurance) with Liveaboard Rider.

 

[Dogbowl]

I am aware. But I am trying to take into account the probability of any such event. Sure, the larger the pool of family members who could need your assistance, the more likely such an event is. Also, as I see it, it depends on the nature of the illness and the recovery period for that illness. Some major illness or injury, or death, is less likely than catching the flu. How much time is there between now--when I purchase cancellation insurance--and the trip? And in the event of a super-grave situation, being reimbursed for some vacation I had booked is going to be low on my list of concerns. It's all about probabilities and their costs, which the insurance companies have figured out with precision, and which the insurance companies are content to have us inflate in our minds. The premiums for what I see as any sort of useful coverage are not insignificant. DiveAssure quotes me well over $2000 for my wife and me (avg. age ~50) for Elite level policy (secondary insurance) with Liveaboard Rider.

USD2000? Annual right? Wow, that’s a lot of money.

I’m also awaiting my quote from the rep.

 

[outofofficebrb]

I am aware. But I am trying to take into account the probability of any such event. Sure, the larger the pool of family members who could need your assistance, the more likely such an event is. Also, as I see it, it depends on the nature of the illness and the recovery period for that illness. Some major illness or injury, or death, is less likely than catching the flu. How much time is there between now--when I purchase cancellation insurance--and the trip? And in the event of a super-grave situation, being reimbursed for some vacation I had booked is going to be low on my list of concerns. It's all about probabilities and their costs, which the insurance companies have figured out with precision, and which the insurance companies are content to have us inflate in our minds. The premiums for what I see as any sort of useful coverage are not insignificant. DiveAssure quotes me well over $2000 for my wife and me (avg. age ~50) for Elite level policy (secondary insurance) with Liveaboard Rider.

What about getting secondary Deluxe at a lower amount - just the boat and flight portions?

 

[Lorenzoid]

USD2000? Annual right? Wow, that’s a lot of money.

"Annual"? HA! No, that's for a 22-day trip to Fiji for a liveaboard plus some land-based stuff. I would imagine it's based in part on age, and our friend OOO is younger than me. It's also a long-ish trip. And that's the highest level they offer, "Elite."

What about getting secondary Deluxe at a lower amount - just the boat and flight portions?

That was kind of the thinking behind my earlier question. If I can just choose to insure myself for any amount of coverage I desire that is less than the total I can document I paid, I may very well just insure myself for half or something like that, and pick a lower coverage category ("Deluxe" or whatever they call it).

And yeah, I just picked Elite level and plugged in the total cost of the trip and total number of days away from home as an example.