Happy to always dive advanced within recreational limits, forever ? [Poll]

[MargaritaMike]

The other reason to do tech training is that it makes you a better diver, because it really is about teaching a mindset as much as it is about learning a specific set of skills. It's about planning your gas and bottom time ahead of time, and coming up with contingency plans for lost gas, extra time or extra depth.

I really like this statement. I think this is the crux of safe diving and should be heavily introduced at the OW level and taught at the AOW level. Divers should be doing this at the earliest possible moment. This shouldn't be something that is saved for tech courses. Dive table problems are (or at least were) taught by saying you go to a certain depth for a certain time. Always within NDL. Now the dive computer does the thinking for the student so now tech - or something - is necessary to teach tables. Many new divers go with groups and are told they are going to a certain depth for a certain amount of time and to surface with "x" psi. Even some "advanced" divers who go vacation diving don't plan their gas. They know the dive op won't put them in any situation that they won't have gas for.
The next time you're on a dive boat in Cozumel (or any other spot known for boat dives) randomly ask a "rec" diver what their SAC or RMV is. If they don't know (which I suspect will be the case), how can they plan their dive properly? When they look at their SPG when they turn their gas on, do they know more than the fact that their SPG works and the tank is "full"? Just some thoughts.

Cheers -

 

[boulderjohn]

The next time you're on a dive boat in Cozumel (or any other spot known for boat dives) randomly ask a "rec" diver what their SAC or RMV is. If they don't know (which I suspect will be the case), how can they plan their dive properly?

What you mean to say is, "How can they plan the dive the way I know how to plan the dive?"

So let's compare the basic rec diver doing a dive on Cozumel with what some might consider the gold standard in dive planning, a cave diver.

Cozumel Diver: This diver is required by law to follow a DM. He or she drifts with the current with the understanding that when the spg reads a certain level, he or she will signal the DM and the ascent to the surface will begin. The diver's SAC rate has nothing to do with it.

Cave Diver: He or she enters the cave with the understanding that when the spg reads a certain level, he or she will signal the buddy and the return to the cave opening will begin. The diver's SAC rate has nothing to do with it.​

There are many ways to plan a dive. In some cases, knowing your SAC rate and planning accordingly is important. In other cases, it doesn't matter at all. You have to apply the right plan to the right dive.

 

[Marie13]

Going tech? Not just yes, but H**L, yes! Just a matter of time. I have some things I need to work on, like getting more SM dives under my belt among others, before I do TDI SM class, hopefully next year. Diving dry again, so that box is already ticked.

Did my deepest dive to date on Sunday - Milwaukee Car Ferry. 130ft to the sand, deck about 100ft. Buddy and I dropped down to 117ft to see the huge twin props before ascending to the deck. I got nicely dark narced. Gloom, doom, fear. Was kind of dark down there, viz could have been better, 50F water temp. Reinforced my desire to do helitrox as soon as possible after AN/DP (unless I do it in combo). Did the dive on a rented HP100 (I've dived them before) and my AL30 pony. Would have preferred to do it SM, but I'd only dived dry SM twice before and weighting needed to be tweaked. Felt it would have been too much task loading.

I want to do deeper wrecks without having to worry about NDL. I dive my Perdix set at medium conservatism. My backup Geo 2.0 is still set on DSAT from when it was my primary, and it was beeping to beat the band!

Not necessarily deep, deep wrecks, but perhaps to 200ft. We'll see, but that's my thinking right now.

 

[Scuba-74]

Is it just me, or there is no choice of "yes, most likely I will at some point"? Not as soon as possible, but at some point I'm sure I will do dives deeper than rec limits, and most likely some penetration dives too.

 

[MargaritaMike]

What you mean to say is, "How can they plan the dive the way I know how to plan the dive?"

So let's compare the basic rec diver doing a dive on Cozumel with what some might consider the gold standard in dive planning, a cave diver.

Cozumel Diver: This diver is required by law to follow a DM. He or she drifts with the current with the understanding that when the spg reads a certain level, he or she will signal the DM and the ascent to the surface will begin. The diver's SAC rate has nothing to do with it.

Cave Diver: He or she enters the cave with the understanding that when the spg reads a certain level, he or she will signal the buddy and the return to the cave opening will begin. The diver's SAC rate has nothing to do with it.​

There are many ways to plan a dive. In some cases, knowing your SAC rate and planning accordingly is important. In other cases, it doesn't matter at all. You have to apply the right plan to the right dive.

Your examples are spot on. I was wrong. Maybe a SAC or RMV wasn't the best example for me to use. I guess I'm all wrong about teaching planning your gas and bottom time ahead of time and coming up with contingency plans for lost gas, extra time or extra depth?

Cheers -

 

[oldschoolto]

Well... When I started diving there were just divers... So I'm still just a diver that's got no problem going to 200' on AIR... Using Navy tables as a backup.. Hell I got my FIRST Computer 2 years ago and still use my dive timer/depth gauge to track the dive..

Jim...

I will add that I got a shearwater that Im falling in love with...

 

[stuartv]

Reinforced my desire to do helitrox as soon as possible after AN/DP (unless I do it in combo).

I would definitely recommend to find an instructor that can teach it and then do Helitrox in combo. If not, then I would really suggest to skip Helitrox and just do Trimix next. To me, doing Helitrox on its own was a waste of money.

 

[Marie13]

I would definitely recommend to find an instructor that can teach it and then do Helitrox in combo. If not, then I would really suggest to skip Helitrox and just do Trimix next. To me, doing Helitrox on its own was a waste of money.

I want just enough He to take the edge off from the “dark narc” - a number of Great Lakes divers have told me they get it without a bit of He. Sunday was my first taste of it and it was not fun. I do know a couple of instructors (and have talked with one) next state over who do Helitrox in combo with AN/DP. Depends on a couple of things: scheduling since they’re at least 3 hours away, and if I want to continue through AN/DP locally with my SM instructor whom I love and am building a relationship with.

 

[J-Vo]

I agree with @stuartv that technical training brings your NDL diving to a hole new level of enjoy-ability and safety.

Now for all the "all that deco is not worth it talk", I recently did a dive @ Whytecliff cut in Vancouver. We dove to ~120' on 30% for ~35 minutes @ depth. We where checking out deep sponges and their inhabitants along the wall. We ascended slowly switching to 50% @ 70' while checking out any number of critters on our way up. "All" of our deco cleared before we reached our stop depths. So we essentially did a no stop dive to 120' with 35 minutes at max depth. I believe that's more than double the NDL time on the RDP. I really don't think this dive would be worth doing or safe within NDL on recreational gear.

 

[boulderjohn]

I guess I'm all wrong about teaching planning your gas and bottom time ahead of time and coming up with contingency plans for lost gas, extra time or extra depth?

No, you are not wrong--for some dives.

There are different kinds of dives, and the requirements for dive planning vary by the needs of the dives. The mistake many, many people make is taking a class that teaches the kind of planning necessary for some more advanced diving and assuming that what they learned there is the only way to plan a dive. This leads them to assume that anyone doing anything different is not planning.