longer primary hose after getting an air2 - what length and type?

[saxman242]

@ScubadriverDale

I don’t know if Atomic submits their items for EU CE testing; and if they do, I also don’t know if they stamp the ratings on US distribution or not.
Here is a quick view of the CE current markings, which may or may not apply to your SS1, depending on when it was made and if it is stamped.
What is EN250?
In brief, on current stamps you would want to see EN250A marked, but would NOT want to see it followed by “>10°C”. I know of no such standardized rating and testing that exists in the US.

I happen to have an SS1 sitting on my desk right now that was purchased new about 6 months ago. It is marked:

CE 0299
EN 250​

From what I can find about pre EN250:2014 standards, an EN250 marking requires testing in water between 2 and 4 degrees C, suggesting that the SS1 at least is appropriate for "cold water". I can't speak for other "air 2" type devices. My guess is that some are good to go and others are not.



Of note, my Z2 first stage purchased at the same time is marked >10C on the seal that is replaced when the cold/sealing kit is installed. Obviously installing the cold kit/sealing the reg addresses this problem for diving in cold water.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Do you mean SS1 ? I think Air 2 is the name of the Scubapro one.

And if you are using the Scubapro I suggest you google first to get a definitive answer from the manufacturer then ask on a forum only as a second choice.

If you have the Scubapro air 2 the temperature spec is literally in the PDF in the very first link if you google ‘Scubapro air 2 cold water’

https://www.scubapro.com/sites/scubapro_site/files/scubapro_regulators-eng_rev-h.pdf

I couldn’t find information on the SS1 in regards to cold water rating whether it is due to my googling skills or lack of official info

dude in the post that you are talking about i quoted atomic.... and im trying to find out some random poster saying he THINKS something. when you state a product doesnt work at a certain temp on scubaboard you better be backing that rumor up.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

@ScubadriverDale I did not make an absolute statement that can be proved, I said “I have never seen...” and “I suspect...”
However, I will strongly suggest that in the absence of a manufacturer’s assertion or documentation of cold water suitability of an item, it is foolish to assume the positive, and one should rather assume the negative. I find nothing on the Atomic website that makes any cold water claims for the SS1, so I still “haven’t seen” it. If you can find something different, please point it out. I do find reference to freeze protection standard/optional on their 1st stages, and on the M1 2nd stage.

I don’t know if Atomic submits their items for EU CE testing; and if they do, I also don’t know if they stamp the ratings on US distribution or not.
Here is a quick view of the CE current markings, which may or may not apply to your SS1, depending on when it was made and if it is stamped.
What is EN250?
In brief, on current stamps you would want to see EN250A marked, but would NOT want to see it followed by “>10°C”. I know of no such standardized rating and testing that exists in the US.

There are a lot of variables that contribute to a regulator freeze up, so “designed for cold water” should not be interpreted as “freeze proof.” Aside from water temp, the added density of air at depth is another contributing factor, so be careful what you are assuming to be true without documentation.

I have an atomic air2 equivalent. Im just asking if you are requoting rumors or are you saying air 2 type backups are not good under 50 degrees F. You stated these products are no good in low temps. If you are going to say that you should be able to back it up. If its true ill throw mine away. If you are spreading rumors because as we know most people on scubaboard talk smack about air2 then thats not cool.

Just trying to figure out where you are coming from. and what is rumor i.e. fake and what is real. No one at scuba shop told me this **** and its dangerous if true. Ive spent multi thousands at this store. if you are correct ill never spend another dollar there.

 

[saxman242]

I have an atomic air2 equivalent. Im just asking if you are requoting rumors or are you saying air 2 type backups are not good under 50 degrees F. You stated these products are no good in low temps. If you are going to say that you should be able to back it up. If its true ill throw mine away. If you are spreading rumors because as we know most people on scubaboard talk smack about air2 then thats not cool.

Just trying to figure out where you are coming from. and what is rumor i.e. fake and what is real. No one at scuba shop told me this **** and its dangerous if true. Ive spent multi thousands at this store. if you are correct ill never spend another dollar there.

The Atomic SS1 is rated EN250, so it seems to be good to go. You'd obviously need to make sure your first stage is also appropriately rated. Which first stage are you using?

 

[NAUI Wowie]

The Atomic SS1 is rated EN250, so it seems to be good to go. You'd obviously need to make sure your first stage is also appropriately rated. Which first stage are you using?

I had my old car totalled and they gave me five grand more than it was worth and it was paid off so i spend about 6 grand on equipment. I couldnt replace it now if I wanted to.

I have an atomic T3 titanium reg and shearwater perdix A.I. computer. why ? because on my open water classes i ran out of air at depth and reg said i had 650 psi

the reg is good for cold. I have an 8/7 semidry wetsuit which for me is better than a drysuit for california. Not good for canada though. def need dry for that

 

[Jay]

Why go with all the hassle? Use an air2 , get rid of octo, and use a normal primary.

So when I said why go to all the hassle use an air 2 you cut off my point completely. ...... what I am saying is WHY use a long primary hose?

In my OP I already said I was wanting a longer primary. There are reasons for that, but I've not asked about those reasons and made that statement for the very reason of not making this thread about those.

Given you had replied to @Oz Chris' post where he said he had ditched his Air2 to which you said "Use an air2" which @Storker rightfully called out.

Thanks for the warning @JackD342 as I hadn't thought of that.

Thanks for the answers to the OP ... I'm know which length my Plan A Primary will be.

 

[BlueTrin]

dude in the post that you are talking about i quoted atomic.... and im trying to find out some random poster saying he THINKS something. when you state a product doesnt work at a certain temp on scubaboard you better be backing that rumor up.

You quoted as well Air 2 so I needed to clarify as because ‘air 2 user atomic brand’ confused me.

You said you wanted to know below, so I tried to point you in the right direction if you wanted to know.

I only replied because your wording in the post below sounded you were the user of a SS1, you were alarmed and you wanted to know. Now if you were trying to make a point rather than wanting to know, ignore my post then.

Apologies if I misunderstood your post.

Would you be able to show any proof of this? Because as an air2 user "atomic brand" and living in northern california the water gets close to those temps at 80ft or deeper. I find that alarming if true. Not saying you are wrong just that I want to know lol

 

[JackD342]

Do you mean SS1 ? I think Air 2 is the name of the Scubapro one.

And if you are using the Scubapro I suggest you google first to get a definitive answer from the manufacturer then ask on a forum only as a second choice.

If you have the Scubapro air 2 the temperature spec is literally in the PDF in the very first link if you google ‘Scubapro air 2 cold water’

https://www.scubapro.com/sites/scubapro_site/files/scubapro_regulators-eng_rev-h.pdf

I couldn’t find information on the SS1 in regards to cold water rating whether it is due to my googling skills or lack of official info

@BlueTrin
I skimmed through that link. Found nothing on Air2.
I did find this link for the 5th gen manual, that explicitly states on page 5 that it is NOT for cold water use.
https://www.scubapro.com/sites/scubapro_site/files/10-14272-scubapro_air2-eng.pdf

 

[JackD342]

I happen to have an SS1 sitting on my desk right now that was purchased new about 6 months ago. It is marked:

CE 0299
EN 250​

From what I can find about pre EN250:2014 standards, an EN250 marking requires testing in water between 2 and 4 degrees C, suggesting that the SS1 at least is appropriate for "cold water". I can't speak for other "air 2" type devices. My guess is that some are good to go and others are not.



Of note, my Z2 first stage purchased at the same time is marked >10C on the seal that is replaced when the cold/sealing kit is installed. Obviously installing the cold kit/sealing the reg addresses this problem for diving in cold water.

@saxman242
I am not an expert on the historical CE specs, but I think EN250 is an older mark that evaluated performance at depth, and maybe temp, but not depth AND temp together. My understanding is with the current marks you are looking for EN250A without the >10°C qualifier for it to be CW rated. Perhaps someone from across the pond can weigh in on that.

 

[JackD342]

I have an atomic air2 equivalent. Im just asking if you are requoting rumors or are you saying air 2 type backups are not good under 50 degrees F. You stated these products are no good in low temps. If you are going to say that you should be able to back it up. If its true ill throw mine away. If you are spreading rumors because as we know most people on scubaboard talk smack about air2 then thats not cool.

Just trying to figure out where you are coming from. and what is rumor i.e. fake and what is real. No one at scuba shop told me this **** and its dangerous if true. Ive spent multi thousands at this store. if you are correct ill never spend another dollar there.

@ScubadriverDale
Dude, chill out!!
I didn’t make any such blanket, definitive statement about all such items in general, or even about your item specifically. I cautioned you to NOT assume yours is CW rated in the absence of specific, definitive knowledge to the contrary. I would call that a baseless assumption. (Baseless does not mean right or wrong, just means you don’t actually know yet.) I did add that in my experience of several brands I had yet to see a CW rated “Air2” style unit, and that is still the case.
Feel free to assume what you like.