Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

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... and even well made items can have defects/quality issues that can result in failure (sometimes sudden with no obvious, advance warning signs).

... but "none" is not zero!

... and "nearly" is not all!

When you can gurantee no one will ever have an issue that could have 100% been avoided in advance, you might have a point. Even then, we're human - so not perfect and things that might seem obvious can be missed by even the most diligent person on any given day!

It's great that you are somehow perfect and will never be in a situation where a pony bottle might save your life. The decision to carry one is a personal choice - but I can't see how anyone can characterize it as ever being a bad idea!
Yeah, and a meteorite might slam through your roof and kill you while you’re sitting on your couch. A giant sink whole might open up under your bed while you are asleep and swallow you up whole (actually happened in FL). You have a better chance of getting killed driving too and from the dive site. I think what people are saying is that if your gear is maintained to proper standards from the inside of the tank all the way through to the point where your lips are wrapped around the mouthpiece and everything in between, and your situational awareness and skills are what they should be to dive safely then many or most of us are willing to accept that using scuba gear has a very low level of risk where a pony bottle does not add enough of a safety factor to bother with it.
Nothing in life is a 100% guarantee, nothing.
 
Folks...

I'm still on vacation in N. FLA. for another week but I just can't let this one slide...

When two previously ''unknown to one another'' divers meet on a dive boat...which one is the ''insta-buddy''...the first diver who thinks he's God's gift to scuba diving...or the second diver who thinks he's God's gift to scuba diving...

Diving with doubles...unless they are correctly configured ''side mount''...or independent ''back-mount'' is not diving with an independent ''redundant'' system...unless...the diver is fully competent in performing ''emergency gas shut-down''...there are thousands of divers around the globe who have dove with doubles for years and could not perform an emergency gas shut-down if you held a gun to their heads...

Considering every piece of dive gear is consumable...further considering most dive gear is manufactured by ''contract jobbers'' for the cheapest price...in third world countries..some of whom are rife with human rights issues...and who still use child labor...the ''consumer'' must be fully aware that any piece of scuba gear...new/old...serviced regularly/serviced infrequently/never serviced...maintained regularly/maintained infrequently/never maintained...can and will fail eventually...

Therefore...''any diver'' who is protected by a redundant bailout system...is 100% better off than ''any diver'' who is not...

Having a ''buddy'' is a good thing...being dependent on someone else to get you out of a ''self inflicted jam'' is not a good thing...

The ''buddy'' that says...''Oh I have the best buddy in the world...he does everything...all I have to do is show up''...is the last person in the world you should be diving with...

Strictly in ''my opinion'' your kit is not complete unless you have a redundant system able to get you safely to the surface from whatever depth you are diving...which includes any ''stop/deco'' obligations...if not...you're likely diving in a location...at a depth...you have no business being in...

And finally...to those with the least amount of experience...think first how you would like someone to respond to ''your'' emergency situation...this isn't about ''you''...

Seasons Greetings...

Warren

Hello Warren,

+1, your are right on!!

Mr. McShane,

You wrote: "Can anyone give a valid reason for a pony bottle? SO many things need to be wrong before it makes any sense to me."

Yes, I can give you one reason for a pony (bail-out bottle): I like having redundant gear.

And, some of my dive buddies have proved themselves to be untrustworthy. Most are OK or very good.

It is my life. I choose to follow the mariners rule that stipulates redundancy and the ability to resolve your own problems while on the ocean.

Bail-out bottles are for recreational divers. If you are using a pony to:
  1. escape from an overhead environment, real or virtual, you should dive technical;
  2. find the anchor line and ascend the anchor line if you suffer problems, you should dive as a techie;
  3. extend your dive because you don't have enough gas for your dive plan, you should dive technical;
  4. and on and on it goes.
Bail-out bottles are for going directly to the surface when all else fails. Safety stops are not mandatory, forget it, and get to the surface.

Bail-out bottles are not needed for any diver (solo or solo with a buddy) who is diving in less than 40 fsw. Many don't need one in less than 60 fsw.

I don't like holding my breath or performing a CESA; therefore, it is "my" requirement. Whether I am solo or buddy diving.

markm
 
Yeah, and a meteorite might slam through your roof and kill you while you’re sitting on your couch. A giant sink whole might open up under your bed while you are asleep and swallow you up whole (actually happened in FL). You have a better chance of getting killed driving too and from the dive site. I think what people are saying is that if your gear is maintained to proper standards from the inside of the tank all the way through to the point where your lips are wrapped around the mouthpiece and everything in between, and your situational awareness and skills are what they should be to dive safely then many or most of us are willing to accept that using scuba gear has a very low level of risk where a pony bottle does not add enough of a safety factor to bother with it.
Nothing in life is a 100% guarantee, nothing.

Ok... I have never had a meteorite hit me, or sinkhole open up under me, ... I have had a nearly new regulator with less than 30 dives suffer a high pressure seat failure. And I have been on a dive with my wife where a rental regulator had a complete (no air) failure.

We are dealing with real potential issues, not some BS theoretical problem.

Many of our current safety, backup “norms” were pioneered by cave divers in the 70’s where they averaged over 10 fatalities per year. *ref Peter Buzzacott’s American Cave Diving Fatalities 69-07.

Of course not all diving has the same risk profile as cave/wreck diving, but these pioneers, through necessity introduced things like the “octopus”, SPG, BC, AND concepts of redundancy.

Improvements in gear, standards and training have done a lot to improve these incidents, even though we have a lot more people participating in these type of dives.

And we don’t tend to track or report the “near misses”. So we really have no idea how many divers have been saved due to gear redundancy, team, or self rescue.
 
Has anyone considered breathing from their BCD if their main air supply fails?
Your BC may have various mold growing in it from less than pristine care. Better than drowning as a last resort, but not a pristine source of air to rely on.
 
Yeah, and a meteorite might slam through your roof and kill you while you’re sitting on your couch. A giant sink whole might open up under your bed while you are asleep and swallow you up whole (actually happened in FL). You have a better chance of getting killed driving too and from the dive site. I think what people are saying is that if your gear is maintained to proper standards from the inside of the tank all the way through to the point where your lips are wrapped around the mouthpiece and everything in between, and your situational awareness and skills are what they should be to dive safely then many or most of us are willing to accept that using scuba gear has a very low level of risk where a pony bottle does not add enough of a safety factor to bother with it.
Nothing in life is a 100% guarantee, nothing.

Hi Eric,

I respect your opinion and it is very valid, for you.

Would you dive to 200 feet on a single tank and no stage bottle?

Or, is your opinion based solely on recreational diving in benign conditions? If so, I agree with you.

I will still dive with redundant gear while agreeing with your opinion.

markm
 
Your BC may have various mold growing in it from less than pristine care. Better than drowning as a last resort, but not a pristine source of air to rely on.

My BC is rarely used for buoyancy control and hardly ever has gas in it.

markm
 
Yeah, and a meteorite might slam through your roof and kill you while you’re sitting on your couch. A giant sink whole might open up under your bed while you are asleep and swallow you up whole (actually happened in FL). You have a better chance of getting killed driving too and from the dive site. I think what people are saying is that if your gear is maintained to proper standards from the inside of the tank all the way through to the point where your lips are wrapped around the mouthpiece and everything in between, and your situational awareness and skills are what they should be to dive safely then many or most of us are willing to accept that using scuba gear has a very low level of risk where a pony bottle does not add enough of a safety factor to bother with it.
Nothing in life is a 100% guarantee, nothing.

When diving with a buddy, do you and your buddy have an octopus?
 
Folks...

I'm still on vacation in N. FLA. for another week but I just can't let this one slide...

When two previously ''unknown to one another'' divers meet on a dive boat...which one is the ''insta-buddy''...the first diver who thinks he's God's gift to scuba diving...or the second diver who thinks he's God's gift to scuba diving...

Diving with doubles...unless they are correctly configured ''side mount''...or independent ''back-mount'' is not diving with an independent ''redundant'' system...unless...the diver is fully competent in performing ''emergency gas shut-down''...there are thousands of divers around the globe who have dove with doubles for years and could not perform an emergency gas shut-down if you held a gun to their heads...

Considering every piece of dive gear is consumable...further considering most dive gear is manufactured by ''contract jobbers'' for the cheapest price...in third world countries..some of whom are rife with human rights issues...and who still use child labor...the ''consumer'' must be fully aware that any piece of scuba gear...new/old...serviced regularly/serviced infrequently/never serviced...maintained regularly/maintained infrequently/never maintained...can and will fail eventually...

Therefore...''any diver'' who is protected by a redundant bailout system...is 100% better off than ''any diver'' who is not...

Having a ''buddy'' is a good thing...being dependent on someone else to get you out of a ''self inflicted jam'' is not a good thing...

The ''buddy'' that says...''Oh I have the best buddy in the world...he does everything...all I have to do is show up''...is the last person in the world you should be diving with...

Strictly in ''my opinion'' your kit is not complete unless you have a redundant system able to get you safely to the surface from whatever depth you are diving...which includes any ''stop/deco'' obligations...if not...you're likely diving in a location...at a depth...you have no business being in...

And finally...to those with the least amount of experience...think first how you would like someone to respond to ''your'' emergency situation...this isn't about ''you''...

Seasons Greetings...

Warren
I was only able to hit the like button because there wasn’t a “this post is freaking awesome “ button....
 
Has anyone considered breathing from their BCD if their main air supply fails?
Have you thought about how much air is actually available that way? Not to mention the lung disease that can follow.....
 
Yeah, and a meteorite might slam through your roof and kill you while you’re sitting on your couch. A giant sink whole might open up under your bed while you are asleep and swallow you up whole (actually happened in FL). You have a better chance of getting killed driving too and from the dive site. I think what people are saying is that if your gear is maintained to proper standards from the inside of the tank all the way through to the point where your lips are wrapped around the mouthpiece and everything in between, and your situational awareness and skills are what they should be to dive safely then many or most of us are willing to accept that using scuba gear has a very low level of risk where a pony bottle does not add enough of a safety factor to bother with it.
Nothing in life is a 100% guarantee, nothing.
Good for you - but all of that doesn’t dispute that there are valid reasons for a diver to decide they want to carry a pony.

It’s amazing how far some here want to go to talk people out of carrying something for their own safety/redundancy - I don’t get it...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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