History of 18m depth limit?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Unless you happen to be one of the people not working -- either a Fed or a contractor -- and not being paid, or worse being forced to work without being paid. These are practical terms too...especially for anyone facing mortgage payments, food bills, car payments, rent, etc....

Or you're federally-funded and your funding application is being reviewed... not, by people who are not working. When there's a gap between current grant and the next, thankfully the University has some bridging fund to tide people over, but of course there is the question of how many and for how long.

I may sound flippant about the whole thing, but it's borderline gallows humour unfortunately.
 
I do still think that training materials should better elaborate on that detail. It's obviously often misunderstood.
I believe the unclear writing is intentional.

I had a long discussion with PADI leadership about a similar topic (overhead environments) a couple of years ago. That discussion talked about the fact that PADI is pretty clear about the recommendation that no one go into an overhead environment without proper training. I talked about all the dive centers around the world taking divers through coral swim-throughs and open decks of wrecks. Their reply was that swim-throughs and open decks are not overhead environments--they are open water. Where does it say that? Nowhere. They said they don't have to state it because everyone understands that already. The Hell they do, I responded.

We were talking about the wreck course and the fact that the course says you can never penetrate a wreck without laying line, and that is where they said that passing through an open deck, the wheel hose, etc. is not a penetration--it is a swim-through, and a swim-through is open water. No need to lay line. Everybody knows that, they said.

It became clear to me that they were afraid to put into writing that it is OK to go through a swim through because of a fear that if they did, they might be open to a lawsuit in case something happened. They asked me for new wording, and I suggested some. They liked it and asked if they could use it in the future. I consented. The future turned out to be 6 months ago, when my definition of a swim-through appeared in the PADI professional journal. It is supposed to appear in the next revision of the wreck course as well. It may also appear in the OW course. I'm just guessing now.

Along with my definition of a swim-through, they included my wording for progressing to more challenging dive situations (such as depth) as your abilities grow. I explained that the change in your personal limits depends upon your mature judgment, your ability to assess the increased risk and match your growth through training and experience to those increased risks. Think about that and see why you might like to have vague language--or the opposite. People who want black and white, no-nonsense rules will favor things like OW = 60 feet, AOW = 100 feet, and Deep Diver = 130 feet (which is, BTW, what it says in the OW course). Unfortunately, those black and white rules don't work, and it will always come down to you using your best judgment. If you write black and white rules like that, rules you know everyone is going to ignore, then you will never be at fault for violations. Thus, for them to put my language about using judgment into the professional journal was a major leap for them.

The only place I know of where such language already exists is in the PADI Trimix course. In the last chapter, students are told that when they complete their certification, their new depth limit is 300 feet. There are no courses after that, through, so when they want to go deeper, it will be up to them to use their best judgment to determine if they have developed the skills necessary to do so safely. It is nicely written, and language like that should be in all the courses.
 
Finally, a little note about the laws of logic. If you believe something exists, and others believe it does not exist, the burden of proof lies with you to demonstrate its existence. You cannot claim that unicorns exist and demand that others prove they do not. If you believe DAN has a rule limiting OW divers to 60 feet, then the burden is on you to show that rule.

Well said.


A couple of years ago Alex Brylske wrote an article, just before retiring, in Dive Training regarding this. He did a nice job explaining the 60, 100, 130 foot depths.
 
Unless you happen to be one of the people not working -- either a Fed or a contractor -- and not being paid, or worse being forced to work without being paid. These are practical terms too...especially for anyone facing mortgage payments, food bills, car payments, rent, etc....

Yes, and my son-in-law works for the Department of Agriculture and they are supposed to come visit us in a couple of weeks--now I'm not so sure they can afford it.
 
Interesting website.
Dive Flag Law
Some 80% of the states require a dive flag...but not including California.

It's actually surprising to me that California would be one of the few that doesn't have a law for that. To me it seems like everything is illegal here, just so they can get you if they want to. When I bought a boat in the early 80s I learned that, when a diver is in the water, I was required to fly the Alpha flag. Since very few people recognized the Alpha flag as a diver's flag I flew the standard flag instead. Sometimes common sense makes more sense. I recently tried to find the Hawaiian law concerning BCs but didn't find anything. I just wanted to know if a Mae West or horse collar would meet the requirements. I'll have to ask at a dive shop the next time I'm there.
 
It's actually surprising to me that California would be one of the few that doesn't have a law for that. To me it seems like everything is illegal here, just so they can get you if they want to. When I bought a boat in the early 80s I learned that, when a diver is in the water, I was required to fly the Alpha flag. Since very few people recognized the Alpha flag as a diver's flag I flew the standard flag instead. Sometimes common sense makes more sense. I recently tried to find the Hawaiian law concerning BCs but didn't find anything. I just wanted to know if a Mae West or horse collar would meet the requirements. I'll have to ask at a dive shop the next time I'm there.
You mean a BC as in BCD for diving, or a PFD as for boating?
 
You mean a BC as in BCD for diving, or a PFD as for boating?

BC, meaning Buoyancy Compensator which evolved into Buoyancy Compensating Device, for diving. I guess it's a habit for me to still call it a BC. Did they also change what they call a PFD? Those were pretty flexible when I got my boat--a foam seat cushion was legal.
 
I recently tried to find the Hawaiian law concerning BCs but didn't find anything. I just wanted to know if a Mae West or horse collar would meet the requirements.

BC, meaning Buoyancy Compensator which evolved into Buoyancy Compensating Device, for diving. I guess it's a habit for me to still call it a BC. Did they also change what they call a PFD? Those were pretty flexible when I got my boat--a foam seat cushion was legal.
yeah, I call it a BC also....but you'd just been talking about a boat, so wasn't sure what you meant. Also, there are indeed regulations (not laws) about PFDs on boats....but why do you think there are laws (or regulations) about BCs on divers?

There may indeed be agency training requirements for equipment (here is what PADI says for OW: Buoyancy control device (BCD) with tank mount or separate backpack, and low pressure inflator), I'd be suprised if there are state -- any state -- requirements on scuba configurations.
 
Finally, a little note about the laws of logic. If you believe something exists, and others believe it does not exist, the burden of proof lies with you to demonstrate its existence.

:D I could think of about five ways to disagree... but I'll take the enlightened view and defend @Efka76's right to never dive below 18 metres. If somebody believes the rule exists, the burden of proof lies with them following it to their hearts' content.
 
yeah, I call it a BC also....but you'd just been talking about a boat, so wasn't sure what you meant. Also, there are indeed regulations (not laws) about PFDs on boats....but why do you think there are laws (or regulations) about BCs on divers?

There may indeed be agency training requirements for equipment (here is what PADI says for OW: Buoyancy control device (BCD) with tank mount or separate backpack, and low pressure inflator), I'd be suprised if there are state -- any state -- requirements on scuba configurations.

I'm going by what I was told at Scuba Shack in Kihei, HI several years ago. That was the first time I'd been to Hawai'i so naturally I asked about local conditions etc and they informed me that, at least on Maui, a BC and a diver's flag/float were required by law. I'd never even used a BC before that so I just rented what they offered. Maybe they were just trying to make more money off of me but they didn't seem like that kind of operation. The other dive shop that I decided not to use did. As for the flag, at one popular dive site that I visited several times everyone just anchored their flag once they got out a ways and picked it up on the way in. Sometimes it was difficult to pick out the right one.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom