Full Face Specialty - worth it?

[lowviz]

IMHO, removing a FFM and going onto a 'standard' mask is the only issue. A diver is really removed from the element (and the view is great) in a FFM.

One begins to forget that one is in water...

Public Safety Diver question

 

[Peter1902]

Wow......as a primarily ffm diver....I almost feel sort of attacked by your comments. Somehow because I choose to dive a ffm, I'm "foolish" and I'm less of a diver? let me see if I can break this down a bit.

1. Movies are movies. Why not draw attention to higher tech gear? Makes for better film.
2. Not saying your figures are wrong, but most of the time when I'm diving with non-ffm divers, I'm fielding questions about my ffm and comments about how they'd love to try them out and how they seem like a good idea, albeit a bit on the expensive side.
3. I've never once had my ffm leak. And if it does...it's leaking air because it's pressurized. If I break the seal on my forehead my ffm spews air and NO water gets in. If I forget to close the surface air valve and make my descent (yes it's happened) it still doesn't leak. Yes water gets in when I inhale and it breathes a bit wet until I exhale and the water exits via the purge valve. Or I simply depress the purge on the reg just like you would a traditional 2nd stage. In the instance I suffer a ffm failure (and I have but it wasn't the mask) I disconnect and doff the mask, breathe off my octo and don the back-up mask I have in a BC pocket. Then from there I connect the back-up 2nd stage I carry with me and switch to it so I still have a secondary reg to donate if a buddy runs into an OOA situation. And if I run into a situation where my octo isn't working...well shame on me for not doing a good gear check before making my entry into the water. As to breathing without a mask...EVERY OW class I've been in teaches students how to breathe wet face. Is it ideal? No of course not. But in the event of a failure...it's doable. But any good ffm diver is going to dive with redundancy. And if they're not....they shouldn't be diving a ffm. Do you dive with a back-up mask on you? What happens if your primary mask gets knocked/kicked off and you don't have a back-up?

Here are the reasons I dive a ffm

a. No fogging
b. No leaking
c. no jaw fatigue
d. no dry mouth
e. COMS - and this works with teaching classes if the instructor has an additional receiver because he can audibly tell the student what to do
f. comfort in cold water

So to say diving a ffm is "crazy and foolish ad clownish" is a completely close-minded statement and tells me you've obviously never experienced diving one. Maybe you should try it and see for yourself. And maybe reserve your comments about condemning those divers that do choose to dive ffm.

 

[Peter1902]

I agree with you 100 percent! I have been diving FFM for over twenty years, PSD and recreational. Spent six weeks diving on the space shuttle recovery effort. FFMs, for me, anyways, are the only way to go. Was forced to dive a half mask, recently , and remembered why the FFM is so much better! I will never go back to a half mask, unless, there is no other alternative. The haters have probably never even dove one, or tried it, one time, and decided that didn't like it after 5 minutes. I would contend that they are probably not very "comfortable" divers to begin with! My daughter has been diving for over 23 years. I transitioned her over to an FFM about three years ago. She feels the same way. She recently dove Epcot Aquarium, their gear. Afterwards she stated " Wow! This really made me appreciate my FFM, I would never go back to a conventional setup!" She has two OTS FFMs and I have two Ocean reef FFMs. I have hundreds of dives on both but prefer the Ocean reef! With that said I do prefer the OTS Buddy Phones over the OR GSM comms. I have made an adapter to use the Buddy Phones with my O R. For those that are interested in the FFM, go to your local dive shop and see if you can try one during a pool session. Give it a fair shot and then make your own decision!

 

[Addicted2H2O]

I agree with you 100 percent! I have been diving FFM for over twenty years, PSD and recreational. Spent six weeks diving on the space shuttle recovery effort. FFMs, for me, anyways, are the only way to go. Was forced to dive a half mask, recently , and remembered why the FFM is so much better! I will never go back to a half mask, unless, there is no other alternative. The haters have probably never even dove one, or tried it, one time, and decided that didn't like it after 5 minutes. I would contend that they are probably not very "comfortable" divers to begin with! My daughter has been diving for over 23 years. I transitioned her over to an FFM about three years ago. She feels the same way. She recently dove Epcot Aquarium, their gear. Afterwards she stated " Wow! This really made me appreciate my FFM, I would never go back to a conventional setup!" She has two OTS FFMs and I have two Ocean reef FFMs. I have hundreds of dives on both but prefer the Ocean reef! With that said I do prefer the OTS Buddy Phones over the OR GSM comms. I have made an adapter to use the Buddy Phones with my O R. For those that are interested in the FFM, go to your local dive shop and see if you can try one during a pool session. Give it a fair shot and then make your own decision!

Have you checked out the new OR Mercury GSM coms? Might be worth a look.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Another issue to be aware of with FFMs is the tendency to breathe too shallow to adequately eliminate/ventilate CO2, especially with macro photographers who spend lots of time very still. The increased dead air space in the oral-nasal mask requires more volume to ventilate. Also, FFMs allow nose breathing which promotes shallow breaths. Increased gas density as depths increase increases the WOB (Work of Breathing). All these factors can result in higher CO2 levels unless divers adjust their respirations.

Commercial divers are taught to overtly deep breathe to counteract these constraints, but they don't suffer the gas limitations of Scuba divers. RMVs don't necessarily have to significantly increase but deeper and slower cycles are required, especially when deeper.

I like what your ar saying here, but I am curious as to why, if professional divers are taught to breath deeply with a FFM, why full-face snorkel masks are advertised as needing only normal breathing?

SeaRat

 

[Ghost95]

I like what your ar saying here, but I am curious as to why, if professional divers are taught to breath deeply with a FFM, why full-face snorkel masks are advertised as needing only normal breathing?

SeaRat

Huh, I just posted about an experience I had in an Ist FFM over in the DIY forum. That is exactly what I think happened.

Shallow breathing through nose. Got "Dreamy/spacey". Vented mask and started swimming in and everything got better.

I always thought the FFM snorkel setups were a bad idea after my experience.

Interesting reading here. Thanks.

 

[Akimbo]

I like what your ar saying here, but I am curious as to why, if professional divers are taught to breath deeply with a FFM, why full-face snorkel masks are advertised as needing only normal breathing?

The work that commercial and military divers perform requires consistently higher work levels, compounded by high gas densities due to depth. Of course the real answer is the physics and physiology involved probably never occured to the manufacturers of snorkel masks -- let alone that rigorous testing was never performed.

CO2 buildup tends to be naturally regulated by unskilled swimmers on the surface. People breathe harder when CO2 raises just like when we do any cardio exercise. Speculation: Inexperienced snorkel mask users are more likely to rip the mask off from the panic-inducing symptoms of prolonged elevated CO2 than experienced divers who are comfortable in the environment. Another factor in a snorkel mask user's favor is they aren't motivated to conserve air.

All things considered, the "breathe normally" instructions are not unreasonable considered the target market.

 

[Bigbella]

Another issue to be aware of with FFMs is the tendency to breathe too shallow to adequately eliminate/ventilate CO2, especially with macro photographers who spend lots of time very still. The increased dead air space in the oral-nasal mask requires more volume to ventilate. Also, FFMs allow nose breathing which promotes shallow breaths. Increased gas density as depths increase increases the WOB (Work of Breathing). All these factors can result in higher CO2 levels unless divers adjust their respirations.

While that can pose a potential issue, a distinction should be drawn between conventional "on demand" FFMs and those which are "over-pressurized" or "positive pressure," which, basically, free-flow a bit, into the mask, and allow for a slight, though continuous flow of venting air, such as some OTS models and the Poseidon Atmosphere, which I have used for years, at considerable depths, without any issue whatsoever . . .

 

[Akimbo]

While that can pose a potential issue, a distinction should be drawn between conventional FFMs and those which are "over-pressurized" or "positive pressure,"

Over-pressure masks don't change the dead-air space issue and the need to adequately ventilate that increased volume. Over-pressurized masks are especially helpful in contaminated environments (like PSD and habitat based hyperbaric welding). Depending on the diver's position in the water, overpressurization can encourage greater lung inflation, but that doesn't improve ventilation when the divers shallow-breaths at the higher lung inflation.

It is obviously manageable, as evidenced by the hundreds of working diver-hours and great depths every day. Many divers intuitively adjust but increased depth and conscious gas conservation can create a perfect storm for recreational divers who are unaware.

 

[-JD-]

@Akimbo & @RainPilot

In your experience, are the Kirby Morgan M48s as problematic for C02 given the relatively lower volume of the oral-only cavity? [Context: OC, pod sealed, and NOT on the mouthpiece.]

I've been considering trying one primarily for comfort/jaw fatigue and better sealing. (I have deep temples and I've tried a lot of masks - some dives are OK, but others I'm still fighting the leaks continuously.)