You GOTTA have insurance

[Storker]

had elderly relatives in Ontario (now deceased) who in the 80s and early 90s had to wait multiple years for cataract and knee surgeries. Their quality of life would have been much improved if they had gotten the surgeries in a timely manner.

And if they were unemployed south of the border, how would their situation be? Still waiting for something they never could afford, perhaps?

 

[Marie13]

And if they were unemployed south of the border, how would their situation be? Still waiting for something they never could afford, perhaps?

They were elderly. Seniors in the US get Medicare - gov’t provided health insurance after age 65. Although some have other insurance from their employers, I believe.

If you make below a certain amount, you can get Medicaid from the Feds.

 

[Storker]

Seniors in the US get Medicare - gov’t provided health insurance

Ah. Single payer healthcare, then.

I rest my case.

 

[Storker]

At my old company, I had to pay $300 a month for a decent, traditional plan without high deductibles.

I just did some math. For me, I'd have to make at least $40k/year to have to pay that amount in medical PLUS Social Security tax.

According to the US Census Bureau, the median income in the US in 2018 was $33.7k/year. Cite. You paid more in medical insurance than the median US income person would have to pay in medical PLUS Social Security tax under our single-payer system ($230/month). The copay would've been capped at ~$300/year for every citizen, and worries about in-system/out-system actors would be non-existent. As would be paperwork after an incident.

Just sayin'.

 

[boulderjohn]

At my old company, I had to pay $300 a month for a decent, traditional plan without high deductibles. Laid off in March due to the plague. New company (only one other employee) is giving me an excellent plan that runs the owner $900 a month. I’m not paying anything towards the premium. I’m getting the same plan owner has. New boss treats me significantly better than the old company.

When I still worked, I paid a lot more than that monthly, as did my wife. That does not include the co-pays for medications and for treatments, and that can run into the thousands. During those last years, I had to have a number of surgeries, and I hit my out of pocket maximum, many thousands of dollars (don't remember) every year. Those co-pays were 20% percent of the costs of the procedure, and those costs were huge. It was a significant strain on our budget. It was quite frustrating when I later realized that the insurance company was not paying the full cost of the procedure for which I was paying 20% and was actually paying about the same as my co-pay--if that. I was paying 20% of a grossly inflated cost that was a total lie designed to get me to pretty much pay the full cost through my co-pay.

But you still ahev not answered my question. All studies show that Americans on average pay more than twice as much for their healthcare as Europeans do, and Europeans get pretty good healthcare. Why do you think that is better?

 

[boulderjohn]

The daughter of a friend of mine became a doctor, and, disgusted with the whole insurance scam, she essentially created her own insurance. Her patients get a separate major medical insurance policy that is very cheap because it does not cover minor medical issues. They go to her for those minor medical issues, and the payment for that is a small monthly fee that entitles them to as much time and attention from her as they need. That cost is a fraction of the cost of typical insurance plans.

 

[Marie13]

I didn’t say I thought it was better. I simply do not see how it can be implemented without it being a giant cluster f$&k.

No one has ever been able to give me a coherent answer on that.

 

[kelemvor]

I feel kind of bad for you guys.

Between myself and my children we've unfortunately had a number of hospitalizations and surgeries over the years. The insurance company hasn't consistently been the same (Cigna, Aetna, Blue Cross) but the experience has pretty much been the same. I go to the doctor or hospital. Give them my insurance card, they look up the copay and I pay it. Then I later get a letter from the insurance company bragging about how many thousands they paid on my behalf and that's pretty much it. Sometimes I encounter something that's covered on a percentage instead of flat copay (in 2018, Blue cross decided that MRI scans were like this) so my portion was 20% or $200. Still, it was simple and I either paid it or did not. I didn't have to fill out any crazy forms. Every time I've ever been in a hospital, they send a woman in with a pooter on a cart who takes my driver's license and insurance card and fills out everything. Generally there will be a signature required. That's it.

There's no "pre-authorizations" or "referrals" or any of that funny business.

There is a difference in "admitted" or not for ER stuff. If I get admitted, there is no copay at all. If I don't then the ER visit is $200. It's all fairly straightforward and there's detailed documentation I can download if I have a specific question. The insurance company generally has someone to ask in case I don't want to look it up myself.

The only thing that's ever difficult is dental. It's hard to find a dentist that will take aetna dental in my area. I did manage to find one eventually but it took a lot of searching, and I get a lot of scam-esque experiences like you guys describe when it comes to dental... like my "100% covered" cleanings end up costing $50-$100. It may very well be the dentist who is doing the screwing, but with no options for providers they get to treat you how they want. I don't even get flowers before I show up for an appointment or a kiss afterwards.

Next year we're being moved to some company I've never heard of; United healthcare. Hopefully I won't get an experience like you guys are describing.

 

[Gareth J]

Maria

The UK managed to bring in a social health care system, directly after having fought a world war.
Despite the fact that the country was almost bankrupt.
Having fought a world war, needing to rebuild its cities after the destruction caused by the bombing. Find housing and work for the men who returned home. And having to pay the USA for the equipment that had been supplied by the USA to fight the war. (The final payment was made in 2006!)

Despite all that, the NHS came into being on the 5th July 1948.

I don't think the USA has anything like the challenges or economic pressure that the UK was under in 1948.

Just an observation.

 

[Marie13]

Maria

The UK managed to bring in a social health care system, directly after having fought a world war.
Despite the fact that the country was almost bankrupt.
Having fought a world war, needing to rebuild its cities after the destruction caused by the bombing. Find housing and work for the men who returned home. And having to pay the USA for the equipment that had been supplied by the USA to fight the war. (The final payment was made in 2006!)

Despite all that, the NHS came into being on the 5th July 1948.

I don't think the USA has anything like the challenges or economic pressure that the UK was under in 1948.

Just an observation.

Because of our federal system of gov’t, all 50 states will have to be included in the implementation. That’s a big part of the issue.

ETA: I’m not some ignorant twit. I know exactly when the NHS was established.