Judging a diver's experience: logging number of dives and hours of dive time

[Wibble]

Cold water, low vis divers are not immune from being inept muppets either.

Out of curiosity, as an experienced cold water, poor vis, tidal wreck diver, what sort of things would one be likely to struggle with?

(It's all moot at the moment as we're not allowed out to play, certainly not travel abroad!)

 

[johndiver999]

Out of curiosity, as an experienced cold water, poor vis, tidal wreck diver, what sort of things would one be likely to struggle with?

(It's all moot at the moment as we're not allowed out to play, certainly not travel abroad!)

Possibly sharks, fire coral, lack of awareness of depth due to lighting, unfamiliar and uncomfortable being swept along by a current, ascending and descending with zero fixed references.... I know it is a little bit of a stretch, but some of those issues can pop up.

 

[beester]

Out of curiosity, as an experienced cold water, poor vis, tidal wreck diver, what sort of things would one be likely to struggle with?

(It's all moot at the moment as we're not allowed out to play, certainly not travel abroad!)

As an experienced cold water, poor vis, tidal wreck diver (and cave diver), who is now living in a place with warmer, better vis, but still current and deep... I would say whatever you are not experiencing in your local environment, for example:

- Underestimaging depth in ideal circumstances (warm, good vis water). Gas consumption, Gas density, narcosis, deco.
- Blue water descends/ascends without any reference
- Blue water ascends with reference
- Team/Buddy separation

I have seen it time and time again, people overestimating their own experience because their local diving is more "difficult". Yes for sure a north sea wreck dive can potentially be more difficult than a red sea wall dive or an italian wreck, but every environment has his own particular risks.

I've seen experienced divers not able to hold depth on ascend/deco stops, seen them lose ascend lines, seen them drift off in the wild blue yonder, seen divers overbreathing their regs at depth fighting current in clear vis, warm water getting close to a hypercapnia hit, I've seen divers totally underestimating depth...

 

[Blackcrusader]

I've had the pleasure of doing over 800 dives with one dive center. So there I am never questioned and they know they can pair me up with any diver. They will ask if I don't mind doing dives with dives with say less than 20 dives. Not an issue for me. Of course some dive sites are only for the more experienced especially the 35m depth fast drift dives I have done. A right blast with the right divers.

Nowadays I turn up and people see I use a Perdix, see hundreds of dives logged and don't ask anything after that apart from what dives would I like to join.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Out of curiosity, as an experienced cold water, poor vis, tidal wreck diver, what sort of things would one be likely to struggle with?

Their attitude. How do you know some's a coldwater/low vis diver? Because they'll tell you - straight away.

Yes diving cold requires additional skills to manage a Drysuit than a wetsuit, but it's not rocket science, and it's easy to transition across. What I often see though is cold water/low viz divers, who for the most part dive with small insular groups of people or clubs, have installed in them a belief their skills are better than they actually are. Big fish small pond syndrome

One memorable incident was a British BSAC DL with +300 dives, took an uncontrolled ride to the surface from 25m (80'). His excuse (on the way to the chamber) was that he was underweighted (the fact that if he was so underweight at 25m there's no way he'd had descended in the first place) - Nope he simply added far too much air to his BC, was overweight in the first place (addiction to lead is common with cold water divers at first) and failed to dump air from his BC

Diving in areas of huge tidal movements means they dive at slack water thus are unprepared (and often too unfit) to constantly kick through a gentle current for the dive (or large inland waters that had zero current) . But they have this mindset that because they're cold water divers warm water divign is easy without pitfalls

People used too, indeed reliant on a line to hold onto for their ascent and stops, come unstuck with blue water ascents and stops.

But they have this mindset that because they're cold water divers warm water divign is easy without pitfalls

This is of course not a list to paint broad brushstrokes across all cold water divers, however they are more likely to dismiss warm water diving as easy, failing to appreciate its pitfalls than the other way around

 

[Wibble]

Poor diving skills are exacerbated when you change your environment.

It must be really odd to look down and see the bottom, even more so if it's a wall and it seems to go on forever.

Possibly one of the reasons the cold + poor visibility divers have "that attitude" is down to being more self-reliant. It's extremely difficult to buddy dive when you've 2m/6' of visibility and you're literally a fin-kick away from loosing contact.


Taking the other perspective; a warm water good vis diver in cold+poor conditions, it's the self reliance which is vital. You must be capable with dealing with what you get without getting flustered, be that buddy separation a sudden loss of visibility, straying inside a wreck, whatever. Lights, strong, narrow beamed and reliable ones, are pretty much essential. If diving in strong tides, then it's being able to shelter in or around the wreck. Navigation's also harder and it's not uncommon to use a line from a reel to help find things.

Putting up an SMB is the same as anywhere, just that you've no absolute frame of reference as to where you are in the water column - that's your computer's job and your skills to sort out the ascent and keep to the stops.


Really good point about the flora and fauna. No idea what fire coral is, but I bet it's not named for its colour!

Oh one day...

 

[ginti]

As an experienced cold water, poor vis, tidal wreck diver (and cave diver), who is now living in a place with warmer, better vis, but still current and deep... I would say whatever you are not experiencing in your local environment, for example:

- Underestimaging depth in ideal circumstances (warm, good vis water). Gas consumption, Gas density, narcosis, deco.
- Blue water descends/ascends without any reference
- Blue water ascends with reference
- Team/Buddy separation

I have seen it time and time again, people overestimating their own experience because their local diving is more "difficult". Yes for sure a north sea wreck dive can potentially be more difficult than a red sea wall dive or an italian wreck, but every environment has his own particular risks.

I've seen experienced divers not able to hold depth on ascend/deco stops, seen them lose ascend lines, seen them drift off in the wild blue yonder, seen divers overbreathing their regs at depth fighting current in clear vis, warm water getting close to a hypercapnia hit, I've seen divers totally underestimating depth...

I was going to write exactly the same thing. There is another topic here on SB about the behaviour of "experienced" cold-water divers in Mexico, with huge viz: they often go well beyond the planned limits, just because they do not realize that they are actually going deep!

 

[ginti]

I have seen people mentioning:
different type of dives
variety of environmental conditions
depth of the dives
frequency of the diving

I'll add the variety of people you dive with.


Diving always with the same people may put a person in a resonance box. On the other hand, diving with many people with different backgrounds will expand your horizons and force you to deal with a range of problems with people who can react differently; that's huge in my opinion.

 

[beester]

Key is to properly evaluate your own experience and skill level. This is not easy. So better to err on the side of caution and underestimate your own experience and skill and overestimate the skill of locals or the skill needed to dive at that place.

However I see more recreative divers diving in colder less vis waters, overestimating their skill when they find themselves diving tropical water than vice versa, really big fish small pond syndrome ;-) Typically it's the club holiday thing... where you have old dinosaurs of the club (instructors) everybody in the club looks upto, coming on a liveaboard or day diving holiday, and being a big gun ho, look at us elite divers... kind of mentality. Not listening to the briefing of local guides, doing their own stuff.

 

[David Novo]

Really good point about the flora and fauna. No idea what fire coral is, but I bet it's not named for its colour!

Sorry for nitpicking, but the point was just on fauna: coral is fauna, not flora.