Judging a diver's experience: logging number of dives and hours of dive time

[boulderjohn]

Really good point about the flora and fauna. No idea what fire coral is, but I bet it's not named for its colour!

Sorry for nitpicking, but the point was just on fauna: coral is fauna, not flora.

...and fire coral is not coral, either, although it is still fauna.

 

[rhwestfall]

I dive mostly in the Great Lakes. I don't think I could chest thump at all about it if I were to go try the offshore wrecks in the Atlantic....

Same thing for the California Coast....

 

[mcohen1021]

I haven't logged a dive in over 20 years, I guess I suck.

 

[boulderjohn]

Since there have been several references to dive logs or number of dives being a requirement for certain higher level certifications, I would like to address a common misconception about that, even though it has not yet reared its ugly head in this thread.

Those are minimum for beginning the course of study, and they are in reality close to meaningless. They only exist as a screening tool to give a rough indication of the kind of experience needed to begin the course. Once you are in the course, the only thing that matters is your ability to perform skills at the required level.

I have seen threads in which people will look at, say, the number of dives required to begin basic technical training and then deride the agency, essentially arguing that in that agency, as soon as someone gets to the number of dives required to begin technical training, they automatically become certified at the highest level.

 

[Wibble]

I've often wondered how people rack up thousands of "dives". I dive an awful lot but can only rack up one dive per day, maybe two if the tides are right. Typical dives are a couple of hours to drive to the site, loading and steaming out to site, diving for an hour or two, steaming back and driving another couple of hours home, i.e. a whole day for one dive. Admittedly those dives may be long and deep, but they only count for "one" dive. I don't bother counting them now, but it's around 600 over the past 9 years and the past 6 diving as much as I can, in reality this means most weekends, with loads cancelled due to the British weather -- have had 7 days blown out in the past 3 weeks, managing to dive 6 times. Last "summer" which was July through October due to the lockdowns, managed 27 dives with another 17 cancelled.

Was diving a few years ago at a holiday resort in Spain. The guy there was saying that he'd done some 350 intro to scuba dives that season alone. That plus instructing and dive leading would take his count of dives well over 700/year.

Personally I don't think those professional dives actually count as "dives". Sure, strictly speaking they are "dives", but they're not dives where he would learn things himself, and certainly not dives pushing the edge of his knowledge and experience -- all shallow, highly structured, running through training modules.

Would one count that kind of person as an "expert" diver because of his high number? How do you rank dive counts?

 

[Wibble]

Since there have been several references to dive logs or number of dives being a requirement for certain higher level certifications, I would like to address a common misconception about that, even though it has not yet reared its ugly head in this thread.

Those are minimum for beginning the course of study, and they are in reality close to meaningless. They only exist as a screening tool to give a rough indication of the kind of experience needed to begin the course. Once you are in the course, the only thing that matters is your ability to perform skills at the required level.

I have seen threads in which people will look at, say, the number of dives required to begin basic technical training and then deride the agency, essentially arguing that in that agency, as soon as someone gets to the number of dives required to begin technical training, they automatically become certified at the highest level.

... How can you call yourself a "Master" when you only need 60 dives for DiveMaster!

(Edit - just saying that; it's only the entry point. Changed 50 to 60)

 

[Wathdoc]

I've often wondered how people rack up thousands of "dives". I dive an awful lot but can only rack up one dive per day, maybe two if the tides are right. Typical dives are a couple of hours to drive to the site, loading and steaming out to site, diving for an hour or two, steaming back and driving another couple of hours home, i.e. a whole day for one dive. Admittedly those dives may be long and deep, but they only count for "one" dive. I don't bother counting them now, but it's around 600 over the past 9 years and the past 6 diving as much as I can, in reality this means most weekends, with loads cancelled due to the British weather -- have had 7 days blown out in the past 3 weeks, managing to dive 6 times. Last "summer" which was July through October due to the lockdowns, managed 27 dives with another 17 cancelled.

Was diving a few years ago at a holiday resort in Spain. The guy there was saying that he'd done some 350 intro to scuba dives that season alone. That plus instructing and dive leading would take his count of dives well over 700/year.

Personally I don't think those professional dives actually count as "dives". Sure, strictly speaking they are "dives", but they're not dives where he would learn things himself, and certainly not dives pushing the edge of his knowledge and experience -- all shallow, highly structured, running through training modules.

Would one count that kind of person as an "expert" diver because of his high number? How do you rank dive counts?

I am in a similar position as you. I live in the middle of England, and as you say the weather and tides have a major impact on the number of dives that you can do in a year. I do a fair few in a well known inland dive site, the rest in north Wales and the Scottish lochs. I no longer tec dive. The problem is made worse with shore diving , it makes it difficult to get above 100 dives with sea diving a year unless you go pad dives out with an inland site. I was speaking to a guy who does ten dives a week at Stoney Cove, but what's the point? I know a marine biologist who did 150 every year. The only way to do more in the UK is to live very close to diveable shore, holidays abroad, or be an instructor. As to experience, it's plenty of varied conditions ,sites and buddies.

 

[boulderjohn]

... How can you call yourself a "Master" when you only need 50 dives for DiveMaster!

Actually, it's 60, but this is a case in point. The number of dives is meaningless. What matters is satisfactory completion of the course requirements. A divemaster candidate with 200 dives will not pass the class if the skill performance is not satisfactory.

Go ahead and quibble with the name. The name is likewise meaningless. A lot of the names of certifications are relics of a long gone past when there were almost no courses offered. Before Los Angeles created the Advanced Open Water program, there was only one course, other than instructor training, so they logically called this new, more advanced course "Advanced." It seems silly today, but when it was created, it was the most advanced course available to a non-instructor. Then agencies started adding specialty classes, and there were only a few, so they figured that someone who had taken all the courses available could claim to be a master scuba diver.

The term divemaster is certainly an example of a name people would probably prefer were different, but it is recognized throughout the world in its present form, and so it would be tough to change. Soon after I completed the divemaster certification, I was hired by the shop to assist with classes. In one of the first of those classes, the instructor I was assisting introduced me as "her divemaster." What she meant by that was "my lowly assistant," but that is not what the students understood. One of them later asked me if I was there to check up on her to make sure she did a good job. With a title like "divemaster," they figured I must be a scuba god.

 

[David Novo]

...and fire coral is not coral, either, although it is still fauna.

I deserved that

 

[BoltSnap]

As for Cold Water Barbarians making better divers, well I don't buy that. We had a lady die in the Keys because she didn't make the proper adjustments. She was out of the Great Lakes where she wore a drysuit and an AL tank. She changed her drysuit for a bikini, the shop used steel tanks but she kept the same weight. The shop tried to get her to shed some weight but she was a Cold Water Barbarian and thus was a better diver than they were, so she knew best. I don't know why she didn't strip her weights but I guess she panicked... and died. So sad. Oh? It can't happen to you? I bet she thought the very same thing. Different environments have different requirements. The locals just might know something you don't.

This is just plain stupid and has nothing to do with experience or anything else. It is an anomaly not a standard.