PADI Master diver?

[rescue15]

Moreover, having failed to disclose your status, it may be argued that you have breached your duty and are guilty at least two of the necessary four elements to sustain a finding of liability.

I can't believe a dive instructor or other dive professional has a "duty to respond" I am a professional firefighter and Paramedic and have no duty to respond. If I am on an airplane and the guy next to me has a cardiac arrest, I have no legal responsibility to identify myself and help him...now moral obligations are something entirely different.

I can understand why a DM or instructor would not want to be recognized on a dive vacation...because it is a VACATION. Why should you spend hard earned money on the dive of a lifetime and then have your underwater time cut short because you got roped into helping an incompetant DM?

Just my 2 cents.

Steve

 

[rescue15]

No sir, they must be PADI specialties in order to qualify for PADI Master Diver Cert.

Yep...this just reinforces the PADI nick name...Put Another Dollar In

I just got my MSD from SDI and half of my specialties and all my training up to Rescue Diver was PADI. It didn't matter to SDI. I will be taking the SDI DM course in the spring and my previous training certs didn't matter to them either.

Steve

 

[k ellis]

Rescue I think it depends on the location as to whether paramedics and firefighters have to disclose. Where I am at (Oklahoma) It depends on what you are doing in relation to whats going on. If you are driving down the road off duty in an emergency vehicle obviously so marked then yes there would be legal ramifications as you have provided a false sense of security. But being in plain clothes in non emergency gear vehicle etc. then it would somewhat depend on circumstances like did they know you were a emergency professional or not.

If you were not portraying it then it would depend more less on the legal system to determine (As you know people sue and when for walking by a swimming pool and slipping then claim they did not know water was there)

The divemaster situation above mentioned would be very difficult to successfully be sued for negligence since you are a patron and in no way assuming the responsibilty of being an emergency responded on dive holiday. But its not to say someone could not try it and successfully win

 

[avra cohen]

I realize this is somewhat off the subject by the OP, but frankly it is a more interesting and germane subject for anyone considering dive leadership certification.

In US law, duty to act is an evolving subject. You are correct that absent a legal duty to act, no one has a legal obligation to respond. That may shield you from criminal liability. But it does not necessarily protect you from civil suit. As a trained EMT, you are off duty, having dinner with a friend who begins choking. You refrain from acting and they end up gravely injured. You get sued and stand on your absence of legal duty to act. Now consider the deliberations in the jury room. I wouldn't want to be your lawyer, even in a 'no duty to act' jurisdiction.
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see firefighter.com for more on this isssue
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Excerpts from 'NAUI Leadership and Instruction' (pg. 169) on STANDARD OF CARE AND DUTY: "With the privileges of leadership status comes the burden of responsibility for the safety for those divers with whom you interact. You have a duty to act in their best interests according to the recreational diving community's standards. Such criteria are not only formally established by NAUI, but also by the generally approved standards, procedures, and customary expectations of recreational diving leaders and other diving organization around the world.
Though diving leadership practices will obviously vary from place to place and evolve over time, every NAUI member assumes a duty to act with care, reasonable judgement, and diligence when dealing with students and divers.... This duty may well arise even though there is no written contract between you and the other divers with whom you associate, and even if you are not being compensated for your efforts.... If an accident occurs, questions of blame, as well as discussions about what was prudent and reasonable for that diving event or training situation, will inevitably arise."

I'm not a lawyer so please don't construe any of this as expert advice. I'd be interested to hear from anyone with actual experience in 'duty to care' issues.

Stay wet... Avra

 

[Walter]

Waste? Qualifying for the cert is certainly not a waste.

No arguments, unless they were BS specialties like PPB or Boat diving.

Five specialties and 50 dives plus Rescue. After making that investment in time, money, and effort... is it worth a few extra bucks for the RECOGNITION certification which you have earned and for which you now qualify?

Recognition or ego stroking?

I thought it was.

Which tells me something about how your mind works.

having failed to disclose your status, it may be argued that you have breached your duty and are guilty at least two of the necessary four elements to sustain a finding of liability.

Wrong, false and incorrect. As a professional, unless you engage in a contract (the contract may be implied from disclosing your status and giving advice) you have no duty and therefore cannot have breached your duty.

But you failed to notice that his equipment configuration was inherently unsafe?

Unless he was my student or my buddy, I had no duty to even look at his equipment.

AND you misrepresented your professional status to the dive boat operator? Friend, you are on the hook! Don't want that responsibility?

Wrong, false and incorrect. If I sign up for a dive, the operator asks me for a c-card and I produce one, I have in no way misrepresented myself, I've merely complied with his request to show I'm a certified diver. My status as a professional is irrevelent.

Friend, you are on the hook!

Wrong, false and incorrect. You are on the hook IF you disclose your status to the diver AND then offer advise AND the advise is bad advise AND that advise leads to injury or death. By disclosing your status and offering advice, you've created a professional relationship in which you have a duty. If you do neither, there is no duty and therefore no breach of duty.

 

[leapfrog]

Guys, can we go back on topic please.............?

 

[solowgregg]

Everything in Nudediver's original post is correct with the exception of the fact that the card does not list your specialties.

 

[NudeDiver]

It sucks you can't use non-PADI specialties. I mean, if the point is to demonstrate and/or acknowledge diving in a variety of diving conditions, it shouldn't matter who issues the specialty card used as one of the 5 specialties - especially since they will accept another agency's certification for the AOW requirement.

 

[rescue15]

It sucks you can't use non-PADI specialties. I mean, if the point is to demonstrate and/or acknowledge diving in a variety of diving conditions, it shouldn't matter who issues the specialty card used as one of the 5 specialties - especially since they will accept another agency's certification for the AOW requirement.

It does suck - your post is right ion the mark...sounds like a good time to make the jump to SDI

Steve

 

[RikRaeder]

It sucks you can't use non-PADI specialties. I mean, if the point is to demonstrate and/or acknowledge diving in a variety of diving conditions, it shouldn't matter ...

I wholeheartedly agree.
Maybe that's not the point.