Emergency Ascent from 110 feet

[Ayisha]

@synctek: A faulty or old zip-tie can cause the mouthpiece to come off of your reg during inhalation. At that point, training and experience will compel you to switch to your backup reg...not kick for the surface in panic.

I've had my mouthpiece fall off u/w twice after a maintenance due to a zip-tie being only probably hand-tightened. I stopped going to that dive shop after the second time. When the mouthpiece comes apart, the first reaction you probably get is confusion as you watch your reg float away and yet your mouthpiece is in your mouth. I started to inhale through the mouthpiece as the rest of the reg was starting to drift away and quickly stopped and blew the water out. It was initially confusing to have a mouthpiece in your mouth and yet it's not connected to air...

 

[all4scuba05]

Too bad the "victim" himself isn't here to give his version. It doesn't sound to me like a panic. (Only slightly) No deco obligation skipped, and never exceeded the "safe ascent rate". I don't think anyone almost died here.

 

[synctek]

@synctek: Based on what you have written, I do not think it would be wise for you to continue to dive to such depths. Weird things can happen. A faulty or old zip-tie can cause the mouthpiece to come off of your reg during inhalation. At that point, training and experience will compel you to switch to your backup reg...not kick for the surface in panic.

Get more experience and/or training first. There's lots to see (and much more light) at shallower depths. Be safe out there...

@ bubbletrouble-

The deep dive I was on was part of the Advanced Open Water cert. I was with an instructor and briefed on all the risks involved, including the obvious rapid ascent dangers. I was also told that if I attempted to ascend during an emergency, the instructor would have to stop me to make sure the ascent was done in a safe manner. That dive was my 12th so I am defiantly a rookie. Training, under your scenario, should negate searching for the reserve regulator not kicking for the surface - I agree, but the gentlemen in main post was choking and it seemed he was overly concerned about the shark - a bit higher on the panic scale I think. My point (again from a new diver perspective) was that his training and experience kept him at depth when panic set in -kudos-. This is contrary to human nature and has to be learned - after all, from the time we each learned how to swim until the time before we became divers, we were taught that swimming up to the surface was the thing to do. We can all hope to maintain that level of control in the face of that type of danger. I have spoken to many seasoned divers since being certified, and many have never been in that serious of situation. Who is to say how each of us will act when times become urgent. I would like to think my reaction would be totally based on training but who knows. Anyway, I just took CPR and first aid and scheduled the rescue diver training. I'm told this type of training is supposed to help divers react properly to emergency situations.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@syntec: My previous post was written in response to how you were saying you might react given various emergency circumstances. The way you were talking about things is a clear indicator that you are not ready to be diving deep (beyond 60 fsw) without supervision. When diving at greater depths, you need to be calm and assured -- not on the verge of panic if anything unexpected (like a few wet breaths) were to happen.

How comfortable are you with taking your mask off and clearing it?
How comfortable are you doing an air share with your buddy?
Can you swiftly deploy your octo or backup reg at any point during the dive?
These things come with experience and practice.

Rescue training can be a very worthwhile learning experience. I will caution you, however, to avoid taking the course too early in your diving "career." In order to get the most out of the class, you need to be squared away with your own skills. This means that you should already practice good buoyancy control (not bumping into stuff, able to hover motionless at any depth in the water column), demonstrate solid buddy skills (very rarely get separated, can communicate well), and have already mastered the skills presented in OW class (mask clearing, air sharing, remove and replace weights, etc.). If you have not achieved this level of comfort in the water, then you won't have the necessary bandwidth to be aware of stuff going on around you (other divers, under water animals, and potentially hazardous situations)...much less have the wherewithal to respond. For this reason, I'd recommend having at least 50 dives under your belt before taking the Rescue class.

 

[farsidefan1]

Ahh the good old blue hole. Immediately after certifying I went to Belize. 2 dives a day for 2 days. I had 4 dives under my belt. My first couple of dives were in somewhat rough seas and I felt very nervous after backrolling into the water fearing I had forgotten something before decending into the deep. Then off we went to the blue hole. Incredibly enough I had the good sense to pass on the dive and just snorkel around the edge. Tons of fish, I had a great time. Saved the blue hole for later after I had many more dives. Looking back on it I have to say it is really a fairly simple dive except for the depth but what I feel best about was that I turned down the divemaster and the peer pressure and waived off the dive. That is actually the only dive I've ever dogged, having become a bit of a diving fool, never missing an opportunity but I'm glad I turned down that dive at that time. I've read too many posts about problems incurred by divers that thought, "as long as I'm with the divemaster everything is going to be ok".

One note I think is important. Dive assure payed about $10,000. for me in Coz last August. Nice to not have to think about the costs when in distress. I can't reccomend dive assure or DAN highly enough.

 

[synctek]

@ bubbletrouble-

I am trying to take what you said constructively because I did say I might panic. I understand how easy it would be for you to judge the poor choice of words - my fault. I could easily go the other way to be macho and say I would never panic in an emergency and would do as I was trained but I think it's best to recognize all the risks associated with diving, including the variable of panic. My main point initially was to state that the diver did not panic and shoot up to the surface. That guy took enough water in his lungs that even with a reg in his mouth, he couldn’t recover and catch his breath. It would seem to me that without assistance, he would have eventually passed out and drowned. Moreover, he had to contend with the initial concern about the shark and the depth of the water he was in. I would hope to make the same rational choice under those circumstances and feel confident in my training, but lets face it, that’s a really crappy situation to be in – I don’t care who you are. Without a doubt, the dive master saved his life.

To address some of your questions:

I intentionally remove my mask and reg during almost every dive - the salt water burns a bit and lake water sucks but I’m used to it now and it makes for a good pic. I also like to practice donning and clearing my mask. I've taken on a small breath or two of water into the nasal cavities - it burns but its tolerable.

Buoyancy was the easiest thing for me to learn. I’m told it’s a very difficult skill to master but I had it figured out by the time I had my open water. I got a lecture from my daughter’s instructor a few weeks ago about swimming a bit higher above the floor to improve picture taking and to maintain a safe distance from aquatic life. Needless to say, I like swimming low because I can. I control buoyancy with my breathing and it works like a charm. If I want to swim or hover over coral or a sea turtle for a snapshot or video, I just take a deeper breath. I spend 98% of the dive horizontal and really don’t like to stand on the bottom.

I keep my hands clasp together near my cumber bun with my right wrist wresting on my Octo. Often, I will remove it, purge and swap while releasing my primary. I then practice the sweep maneuver to recover my primary and replace the octo. All the while remembering to hum a tune so as not to hold my breath. My wife son and I practice sharing air the first tank of every dive day. We shore dive so at about10 feet, we kneel, give share-air signs and trade regs.

 

[ScoobaDood]

As a fairly inexperienced diver I have to say I am totally amazed at the number of people that are in a race to go deep and dive beyond their means. I have about 22 dives under my belt, I enjoy the 30-50 foot depths, there is plenty to see and enjoy. I have every intention of going on to AOW and additional training, but I want more "experience" before more training. When I can do all that I need to in the 30-50 foot range, and have bouyancy down, and have mastered the skills I gained in OW...then I will seek further training. I see people do OW, and 2 weeks later hit AOW, and by the time they have 20 dives under their belt they are doing Wreck Penetrations at 130' because they see training as stepping stones. Now maybe I am wrong in my approach but I see additional training as something you do AFTER you master what you have already been taught. Imagine a Doctor graduating from Med School and then enrolling in Surgical Training, Neurological Training, and Cardiology training all at the same time. I certainly wouldn't want him touching me. I want him to master being a Doctor first.

Oh well...I have rambled long enough. As always, just my $.02

 

[DivingFirefighter]

Okay, here is my 2 cents... I have 37 dives under my belt, including a couple 100 footers, and some cavern dives (taken with my cavern class, so don't jump me! lol). The biggest problem I see with the whole incident is this. The divers reg was breathing wet and he continued the dive. I honestly would have singled somethings wrong switched to my octo and ended the dive right there. If that had been done, this incident I am confident would have been avoided. Small problems typically become big problems, the key to avoiding big problems is correcting small problems. I know ending a dive prematurely is difficult do as a new diver. But it should always be that you can back out of a dive for ANY reason with out taking crap from people. The problem with just switching to your octo and continuing the dive is.... anyone.. anyone..? That now there is no back up cause your primary should be considered useless if you have to ditch it for your octo! I could be wrong...

 

[DivingPrincessE]

I think one of the biggest problems here (as has been stated in this thread) is divers going beyond their training. I'm not sure who is more to blame...the dive op for taking divers where they should not be, or the divers for not researching the dive sites and knowing to stay within their limits.

It is one thing for a diver to go on a boat to do a couple of reef dives, and then the reefs are deeper than expected yet they follow the DM anyway b/c they don't want to look "chicken" or whatever. But when you sign up for a Blue Hole dive, you know EXACTLY what you're getting... and kind of shame on you for getting in over your head.

I went to Belize and Cozumel as my first "dive trip" after I was certified. I had read about the Blue Hole, knew it would be pretty cool, but I also knew I had NO business being there as a new diver. I passed on the Blue Hole and did a couple of reef dives instead. Nothing is cool enough to risk your life for.

What is his doctor supposed to do with a patient that comes in with no symptoms, but with a suspicion that some may appear later on?

Well the guy inhaled a bunch of water (according to the OP)...I would be afraid of what I think they call dry drowning. I remember the story of a little boy who almost drowned, was cleared by the hospital, but then returned home and died several hours later b/c of damage done to the lungs during the near drowning experience.

OP stated there was another individual that made a emergency ascent ..So that is 2 people out of 7 that had issues on that dive..thats 2 too many..the dive operator should be questioned on why they take inexperienced people to that location.Sounds like a shady operation that should be avoided.

Agreed.

 

[biscuit]

First of all, kudos for your excellent buddy habits! Many problems can be minimized through frequent checks like those that you two employed.

One of the things that most bothers me about your trip to the Hole is that an inexperienced group of divers was left at depth without supervision. On an escorted dive, this is outrageous. Dive operators need to be prepared for an emergency or two on a dive like this one, and if they aren't, I wouldn't be following them anywhere.

My instructors were very conservative divers-- something I rarely hear about nowadays. But our dives were in very remote areas whether it was from the beach or a boat, and the only help we had within 100 miles was from each other. That made choosing the right buddy priority #1. Researching the conditions of the dive site was priority #1. And getting to know something about fellow divers on the boat (without actually drilling them about their experience level) was priority #1.

In addition, I was taught - and continued teaching the principle to my students - that lessons are best learned at depths of 20-40', and the best sea life is at or above 60'. We certainly dived much deeper but not without a reason.

You have good instincts; now hone your skills with additional controlled diving and training. In addition to Rescue, I highly recommend that you take the Equipment Specialist course, the Deep Specialty, and the Search & Recovery Specialty. All together, these will give you confidence and more skills to pull out of your pocket when the need arises... and believe it, the need WILL continue to arise as you rack up dives in international waters.

Other than recommending the above courses, my best suggestion is that when you travel by air and luggage space is at a premium, find room for your own mask, regulators and depth gauge/computer no matter what. You'll learn in the equip classes how to put together a large repair kit and another small one for travel. Rent tank, BCD and weights if you wish but when it comes to the things your life depends on underwater, put your faith in the gear you know and have maintained.