Hanauma Bay - Oahu Diving Fatality

[hbhobby]

condolances and prayers to the family

I hate to see the lifeguards, firemen and EMS personell being criticized! :depressed: I am sure they were doing the best they could witht he situation at hand! I speak from experience of having worked in EMS/fire and emergency room for the last 10 years as a medical professional, that just because someone comes up and says "I am a doctor I can help" does not mean anything. I have been on accident scenes and have had "doctors" that are in way over their heads or they are family practice doctors who have no clue about emergency medicine and the proceedures involved. Pre hospital emergency medicine is WAY different than family practice and even different than hospital emergency medicine. So just because someone comes up and says "I'm a doctor" or NP or PA or EMT or whatever DOES NOT mean that the care they would give would be any better than what EMS is already doing. Then there is the whole legal aspect of turning care over to someone who you have no idea if they are MD, DO, PA, NP, RN, DC, DPM, or PHD, just because they say they are a doctor. It is easy to say that I could have done so much more when in reality a study (I cannot find the reference right now) showed that paramedics were 30% more likely to have successful intubation than even Emergency Room Physicians (not just some MD, DO, PA, NP,etc who walks up and says "Im a doctor") So when I come upon a scene that has EMS staff there I explain who I am and offer to help if they refuse, it is totally their discression and I would NEVER criticize them for whatever choice they make. It also sounds like in this situation that if he had been missing for 10 - 30 minutes they may have been going through the motions to give comfort to the others involved. and I am not a doctor I just play one at work all day.
Just my opinion

 

[redgym]

condolances and prayers to the family

Then there is the whole legal aspect of turning care over to someone who you have no idea if they are MD, DO, PA, NP, RN, DC, DPM, or PHD, just because they say they are a doctor.

This is the first thing I thought of when I read the post. With no disrespect intended, if I'm a first responder, I would not turn over care just because someone says they are a doctor or other medical professional. Too much risk.

 

[coldwaterlloyd]

Yes Redgym , I was thinking the same thing , like when my wife wants to come and help me cook . Sad Story , these things do happen . If you are ready to have a heart problem overexertion on scuba can get you there very quickly .
I did my first ever scuba dive in Hanauma Bay , very surreal reading the thread , I spent a lot of hours diving and snorkeling that bay , it gets intense very suddenly so I know what you guys are talking about , not for the faint of heart . My condolences to the family .

 

[northen diver]

I was at the site snorkeling when this happened. I saw the diver that they pulled up on the beach. I can tell you a few thing about what I saw.

As a snorkeler I actually swam out past the markers in the bay and realized that the current was very strong. The conditions before the markers were perfect. Once past the markers the underwater conditions became very tricky and dangerous. I turned back immediately and warned others around me to do the same. I am a Northern California Dive Con. I would have called the dive if I had been on scuba. The conditions were far too dangerous.

I can tell you that the response from the lifeguards and the fire department were actually sub par. They had a single surf board looking for a lost diver for about 10 minutes. Then there was a second surf board at some point. After about 20 minutes a jet ski showed up. We did not realize there was a serious issue until the jet ski showed up. The fire department was not even called until the diver was on the beach.

My girlfriend is a nurse practitioner in the US and a doctor in Russia. She clearly identified herself to the EMS group and they told her that she wasn't needed. Last time I checked a nurse practitioner is much more highly trained than a paramedic. We both stood by and watched in horror as the fire department only performed basic CPR.

1. My girlfriend could have intubated the diver. This is not something that was even attempted by the paramedics. She stood by telling them she could do this to help clear the airway. It probably would have helped.

2. The paramedics were only using an air bag. They had an ambulance and we were shocked not to see a full oxygen kit in use. Full oxygen would have been far more effective than a basic air bag.

3. The fire department shocked the diver with an AED a full three times. They needed to push adrenaline and atropine in addition to the AED. This was not done by anybody. There was no IV set up on this diver at all. Again there was an ambulance on the scene. They didn't even move the diver to the ambulance until 15 minutes of basic CPR had been attempted. By then it was too late.

Even after the accident the lifeguards only advised swimmers that went past the markers of dangerous currents. They did not flat out ban people from swimming past the markers.

There are many things here that is perhaps misunderstood.

I am trained as a lifeguard instructor with the ARC, YMCA, USLA and the BSA. I had lifeguarded in Fort Lauderdale, Hawaii and Texas along with many parks, lakes and pools. It is very difficult to perform a rescue in strong currents with a person wearing scuba equipment (ditch the gear). A lot of guards dont even have rescue boards at certain beach locations and have to rely on rescue cans or tube which is difficult to perform a tow into shore. It sounds to me that the guards did everything proper and within their training.
My wife is a medic and many of the EMS units are just BLS trained. They are not trained or authorized to issue drugs, start IV's and in some area's not even to intubate someone. On my wifes local FD, they do not turn over care to any by-standers. The duty of care stays in the department (BLS to ALS to life-flight) right to the hospital. There are often times trained medical bystanders in a accident scene and it is very difficult to get verification of thier credintials and the duty of care stays with the acting EMS or another mutual aid responder.

 

[CapnDan]

Today I learned that the diver was found lying face-up on the bottom with his weight belt still on, and his rig was found floating on the surface in the general vicinity. (This was also mentioned in a local news report.) I don't know whether or not the BC on the rig was inflated or there was air in the tank. There are plenty of possible scenarios, but at this point there are no clear explanations aside from the obvious fact that he unfortunately got separated from his group and had to deal with his problem alone.

 

[DandyDon]

I have no idea what happened, but there are two all too familiar aspects seen here way too often...

Separated from buddy or diving alone; and

Found with weights still on.​

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

I'm still wondering if one of the lifeguards removed the BC at some point during the rescue attempt... but if the lifeguards told CapnDan that they didn't remove the BC.... well, it is puzzling for sure.

Thanks again for the update CapnDan.

Best wishes.

 

[fisheater]

If the diver had panicked at the surface and started shedding gear (as sometimes happens), he could have gotten his BC off and then been overcome by drowning before he got his weight belt off. That would fit with facts as reported so far.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

If the diver had panicked at the surface and started shedding gear (as sometimes happens), he could have gotten his BC off and then been overcome by drowning before he got his weight belt off. That would fit with facts as reported so far.

Sounds like the most reasonable guess I can think of too, if the lifeguards did not remove the BC during the attempted rescue.

If the victim was not entangled, he'd have no reason to remove the BC underwater, thus it had to happen at the surface.... but with no witnesses, we wont ever know, like with the majority of these cases.

Best wishes.

 

[DandyDon]

Anyone hear how deep he was found? Was he discovered by a lifeguard using little equipment?

If the diver had panicked at the surface and started shedding gear (as sometimes happens), he could have gotten his BC off and then been overcome by drowning before he got his weight belt off. That would fit with facts as reported so far.

Well, that's a lot of guessing, even tho possible. I just hate reading about loss after loss happening for one reason or possibly another, panic sometime evident other times possible, and diver after diver drowns without ever dropping weights or couldn't in one recent injury discussed here. But we never read about anyone who did drop weights do we? Seems to be a theme failure there.