Innovation in diving

[gianaameri]

I did come up with one. A depth gauge and timer is used to control your ascent rate. But you claim that with your skill and experience these tools are inappropriate.

I'm not sure they would be willing to dive with you, hence my post. By the way solo is only safer if the other diver is a liability.

A depth gauge and timer is used to control your ascent rate, but if other tools are available like an ascent line with pre-marked depths/distances, as explained, this could be a more precise tool than Dive Computer/Bottom Timer. Skills and experience also play their part.

As to "Solo," some caves (or sections of the cave) can only be entered "Solo" for safety considerations, and any one diver in caves is a potential liability for the other. The more divers, the greater the potential liability in caves (my opinion).

 

[nimoh]

A depth gauge and timer is used to control your ascent rate, but if other tools are available like an ascent line with pre-marked depths/distances, as explained, this could be a more precise tool than Dive Computer/Bottom Timer. Skills and experience also play their part.

I probably should have learned this based on your discussion with Tony and realized how obtuse you are in you postings.

At the very least, I am confident that I shown (although I fully expect you to reply to the contrary) how your decisions and subsequent defense of those decisions directly contradict the "words of wisdom" in your signature line. Hopefully other divers won't come to this thread and think that there is no point to buying a depth gauge or computer if they plan on diving over shallow hard bottoms with an al80, making mandatory deco impossible.

So, I look forward to your reply, but I warn you that I am on a mission to have the last word in this thread

 

[gianaameri]

Hopefully other divers won't come to this thread and think that there is no point to buying a depth gauge or computer if they plan on diving over shallow hard bottoms with an al80, making mandatory deco impossible

I hope so too!

We are 100% in agreement.

You have an uncanny ability to misconstrue the thread and its contents.

Bye!

 

[TONY CHANEY]

The only person that "wins" in this discussion is the sole diver out there that reads this and makes a rather wise decision to always dive with a bottom timer, depth guage and / or computer. If I was able to convey that to one person that all of this has been worthwhile. Please just dive safe and always stack the cards in your favor. Each and every time I go diving I promise my wife and daughters that I will do everything in my power to come home safe. There are a hell of a lot of better divers, way better and had more experence than Gianaameri and I, that have died. Breaking rules and bending rules is something that you might get away with but to compound it with an overhead enviorment is just stupid. If nothing else, at least using a bottom timer, depth guage or computer will let the body recovery team be able to tell the story to your love ones and friends of how you screwed up.

 

[flots am]

The only person that "wins" in this discussion is the sole diver out there that reads this and makes a rather wise decision to always dive with a bottom timer, depth guage and / or computer. If I was able to convey that to one person that all of this has been worthwhile.

I stopped leaving things home on a per-dive basis after I realized that the only time I ever really needed something was when I didn't have it.

Although I can see where gianaamei could possibly get by without a depth gauge on this specific dive (water pipe, perhaps?), "letting things slide because it's easier" is a slippery slope that's been fatal to any number of divers and because I promised my wife I wouldn't get killed, I don't intend be joining his "probably won't need it" club.

 

[pocky21]

I was taught to use air in a graduated cylinder to measure ambient pressure. No moving parts, no futzing with calibrations, and no batteries to die. So long as you keep it inverted, it's 100% accurate.

Plus, they come in an assortment of capacities to fit every size of diving ego.

 

[JustinRyan]

I hope so too!

We are 100% in agreement.

You have an uncanny ability to misconstrue the thread and its contents.

Bye!

A FMEA would be a very organized way of evaluating all of the possible failure modes and the effects. As a new diver that has taken an interest in cave diving it would be beneficial to see both camps really quantify the risk involved. Quantified analysis is at the heart of "calculated risk" after all.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

A FMEA would be a very organized way of evaluating all of the possible failure modes and the effects. As a new diver that has taken an interest in cave diving it would be beneficial to see both camps really quantify the risk involved. Quantified analysis is at the heart of "calculated risk" after all.

Nothing more than to dive without required equipment, chances taken. To dive with required equipment, chances are less. To walk away from a dive due to forgotten required equipment, nothing lost but another dive. To take the chance and diving without required equipment, possible life lost and endangering the recovery team.

An example: A friend and I were in Okinawa, Japan and it was going to be his last dive on the island prior to going back to the states. We checked several dive spots but all were blown out. we picked a dive spot where we thought that we could get but have never been there before. (Onna for the ones thast know the place). While we were deciding on how to get in and out a guy in a van stopped to ask us if we were planning to dive here. We said, "yes." He said, "it will be easy getting in and hell to pay getting out." He also added, "it is not worth it!" We went to another location and had a great last dive together. Lession learned, if you have to think more than a minute about to do the dive or not, walk away. That guy saved our ass that day. If equipment, physical, mental or conditions are not right...walk away to dive another day. Case in point, Gianaameri had "hundreds" of dives at this site. What was there to gain other than another dive to log? I mean really, if you could do the dive without a bottom timer or depth guage was it really that big of a deal that you simply could not afford to walk away?

 

[gianaameri]

Nothing more than to dive without required equipment, chances taken. To dive with required equipment, chances are less. To walk away from a dive due to forgotten required equipment, nothing lost but another dive. To take the chance and diving without required equipment, possible life lost and endangering the recovery team.

An example: A friend and I were in Okinawa, Japan and it was going to be his last dive on the island prior to going back to the states. We checked several dive spots but all were blown out. we picked a dive spot where we thought that we could get but have never been there before. (Onna for the ones thast know the place). While we were deciding on how to get in and out a guy in a van stopped to ask us if we were planning to dive here. We said, "yes." He said, "it will be easy getting in and hell to pay getting out." He also added, "it is not worth it!" We went to another location and had a great last dive together. Lession learned, if you have to think more than a minute about to do the dive or not, walk away. That guy saved our ass that day. If equipment, physical, mental or conditions are not right...walk away to dive another day. Case in point, Gianaameri had "hundreds" of dives at this site. What was there to gain other than another dive to log? I mean really, if you could do the dive without a bottom timer or depth guage was it really that big of a deal that you simply could not afford to walk away?

It is a big deal mentally to do the dive I did because of the pre-conceived ideas which have been drilled in our mind since Scuba 101.

If you think out-of-the-box and are adaptive, then you realise a pre-marked line can be a better Dive Computer/Bottom Timer than any electronic device (better than some Tec computer I used for sure). In any event it is a means for cross-referencing/checking between electronics and line markings when under normal circumstances carry Dive Computer/Bottom Timer.

If the first instance, though, in a cave the cave line has to be there.

Then, depths and distances have to be marked in the cartography and you need to have verified those personally.

Then, you need to have a good understanding of your times to cover those distances at various paces, as well a good understanding of the cave morphology.

Take a compass, for example. Aborigines don't have one, yet they can travel long distances back and forth without getting lost. Some islanders (cant' remember who) can do the same at sea!

To me, it was an experience worth living.

It frees your mind and makes you more comfortable should one day look at your arm to discover Dive Computer/Bottom Timer is dead/gone - awesome and memorable dive!

 

[nimoh]

Take a compass, for example. Aborigines don't have one, yet they can travel long distances back and forth without getting lost. Some islanders (cant' remember who) can do the same at sea!

not sure what this has to do with this thread, or diving for that matter, but they use the sun and stars for navigation. People have been doing this for centuries. The fact that some aborigines or islanders still do it today doesn't change the fact that we have better technology available today for this purpose.