Automated External Defibrillator - Do you carry one AND are you trained in it's use?

[dsr30]

Trained, yes. Own or carry one, no.

 

[Doc Harry]

Automated External Defibrillator - Do you carry one

AEDs cost from $500 a for a cheap, used, refurbished unit to $1,500 for new models.

Throw in the annual costs of maintenance and calibration checks, and they are prohibitively expensive.

Of course, no one carries around an AED.

 

[The_Aviator_1]

Things I have seen in my 8 years as a paramedic. People doing CPR on a person who is yelling ouch every time the "rescuer' is pushing down. People who "felt faint" and had an AED attached and they have informed it it analyzed and said no shock advised. Even though they are "dummy proof" people still defy logic. I recommend people take the class before using them, if possible.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

AEDs cost from $500 a for a cheap, used, refurbished unit to $1,500 for new models.

Throw in the annual costs of maintenance and calibration checks, and they are prohibitively expensive.

Of course, no one carries around an AED.

Except for those of us who DO own and carry them In all honesty if you buy the right one, it does it's own self checks and will sound a beep if something is needed. Course you need to make sure your pads are in date mine require replacement every 2 years $70 or so and my battery is good for 4 years a couple hundred. I've only used my personal one in a dive setting once. Person didn't have a shockable rhythm but it sure made a difference to the family knowing just how much effort was made and how much equipment was brought to bear to save their loved one! That made it worth the price of replacing the pads in my book!

I don't get the price thing. People spend more on jewelry and holidays. This could bring you more years of life for yourself or a loved one.. isn't that worth more?

Things I have seen in my 8 years as a paramedic. People doing CPR on a person who is yelling ouch every time the "rescuer' is pushing down. People who "felt faint" and had an AED attached and they have informed it it analyzed and said no shock advised. Even though they are "dummy proof" people still defy logic. I recommend people take the class before using them, if possible.

When I was trained on Defibulators nearly 20 years ago as a paramedic we had to be able to read strips, know the heart and the electrical system of the heart inside out before we were "Qualified" to use one. When they started talking about putting them in the public domain we were skeptical.. in some ways elitist. The new machines are so well designed you can't shock unless there is a shock-able rhythm. Yes there are some idiots out there.... I remember a call where the first aider couldn't remember if they were supposed to put the spineboard on the back or front so did BOTH... patient sandwich thank goodness he didn't need CPR and didn't have a spinal injury!

I would still rather have the AED's readily accessible so there is at least a chance one can be deployed within a viable time frame! There are some creative idiots out there but it is still not possible to get one of these new AED's to shock without a rhythm that needs it!

In Australia the rules have just changed so that every person taking a first aid course must be trained and examined on deploying an AED! More work for me as a trainer/assessor but a step in the right direction IMHO

 

[abnfrog]

AEDs cost from $500 a for a cheap, used, refurbished unit to $1,500 for new models.

Throw in the annual costs of maintenance and calibration checks, and they are prohibitively expensive.

Of course, no one carries around an AED.

as a professional i DO have one allot of us do if you take the first 1k of teaching profit BUY ONE CYA plus saving a life is worth millons

 

[tc]

Yes to both, I own one that goes around with me and include instruction on AED's in all of my CPR classes.

 

[flots am]

"
Although they may be "idiot-proof" as some suggest, AED use is a typical part of a number of first aid courses these days. It is good to understand the basic how and what, but not essential.

It's only "idiot proof" in the sense that you can't kill a healthy person with it.

It's entirley possible to misapply the pads so that "nothing happens" even though the victim needs to be defibrillated.

flots.

 

[TMHeimer]

I thought part of the point of AED's was that they were idiot proof? Stick on the pads according to the diagram, press the button, and follow the instructions.

That's what they say. In my original EFR course we used it (one time each student). Yes, it was simple. On my EFR card it says I can use it. On the 2 "refresher" courses (one EFR, one other agency) we didn't use it. I only assist with classes as a DM, so there is always an instructor there anyway. If I were to DM charters I would definitely get some "re-training" with AED. I asked our owner to review setting up to 02 bottle, and I wrote the steps down--I don't own a $700 02 kit. My previous training with 02 consisted of putting it together and taking it apart --one time each in Rescue and DM courses. Yes, my memory stinks, but I don't think that amount of training without steps at least written out is very prudent for anyone.

 

[Divegoose]

As a fire fighter I have the training, and have used one several times. Don't own one so don't have one at the dive site. Not sure if the shops I deal/dive with have one, but I don't believe so. Great if the patient has a shockable rythym (A-Fib or V-Fib), but if patient has non schockable rythym (asystole) chances of success are slim.

My personal opinion is ALL divers, but especially those who are responsible for the safety of other divers, ie: divemasters, instructors, should be trained in CPR. Good effective CPR is vital to sustain a patient until trained medical personnel with the proper equipment arrive.

Divegoose

 

[gusser17]

Great if the patient has a shockable rythym (A-Fib or V-Fib), but if patient has non schockable rythym (asystole) chances of success are slim.

I agree with your comments about the importance of CPR. Just to clarify, A-fib is not a rhythm that is shockable by an AED. Ventricular fibrillation is the only rhythm that AEDs are designed to recognize as shockable. In hospital with more sophisticated defibrillators, one can shock other rhythms but you can't do it with an AED. Also Atrial fibrillation is rarely a life threatening arrhythmia. In some circumstances one might want to "shock" a patient out of atrial fibrillation however the procedure is actually called a synchronized cardioversion and not a defibrillation. It requires the machine to read the QRS complex (the tall skinny spike on an ecg) and synchronize the shock appropriately so as not to induce a more unstable rhythm like v-fib. The decision making required to cardiovert a patient in atrial fibrillation is way beyond "idiot proof" nature of the AED. Hope that helps to clarify.