First reg, absence of information

[nihildriven]

I'm new to SCUBA diving and am looking to get my first set of gear. This all seems to be pretty straightforward if you know what kind of diving you plan on doing. My problem is that I don't.

I plan on doing both local and vacation diving; however, I don't know what either will necessarily entail in terms of water temperature or depth. I will be moving in short order, and where exactly I will land is still up in the air - meaning I don't even know what my local diving will entail.

My question is this: what regulator do you get when you have no clue what conditions you'll be diving in beyond a few months out?

Frankly, I'd prefer to spend as little money as possible in the long run. I don't want to buy a super cheap reg that won't suffice, for example, in cold water, only to replace it in a few months, nor do I want to buy a flagship reg that goes far beyond any reasonable needs of a recreational diver.

 

[USdiver1]

Get a regulator with an environmentally sealed first stage, as it will work in all temperatures. You don't have to go top of the line as most mid-range regulators either can be purchased with a cold water kit or one can be fitted to the regulator by your LDS.

 

[JohnN]

I'm new to SCUBA diving and am looking to get my first set of gear. This all seems to be pretty straightforward if you know what kind of diving you plan on doing. My problem is that I don't.

I plan on doing both local and vacation diving; however, I don't know what either will necessarily entail in terms of water temperature or depth. I will be moving in short order, and where exactly I will land is still up in the air - meaning I don't even know what my local diving will entail.

My question is this: what regulator do you get when you have no clue what conditions you'll be diving in beyond a few months out?

Frankly, I'd prefer to spend as little money as possible in the long run. I don't want to buy a super cheap reg that won't suffice, for example, in cold water, only to replace it in a few months, nor do I want to buy a flagship reg that goes far beyond any reasonable needs of a recreational diver.

My $0.02 Sealed diaphragm regulator. Good for warm and cold water. Unless you flood the internals, and you dive <100/year, it should be good for 2-3 years between services.

My personal preferences are the HOG D1 + "classic" second. Primary, two identical secondaries, SPG and hoses for ~$520 at DRIS, contact Jim Lapenta (jimlap212@comcast.net) from this board and you might get an even better price.

 

[2airishuman]

My question is this: what regulator do you get when you have no clue what conditions you'll be diving in beyond a few months out?

Frankly, I'd prefer to spend as little money as possible in the long run. I don't want to buy a super cheap reg that won't suffice, for example, in cold water, only to replace it in a few months, nor do I want to buy a flagship reg that goes far beyond any reasonable needs of a recreational diver.

2air's regulator purchasing advice for new divers.

1) Do not buy an expensive regulator unless you want to impress your friends.
2) The extent to which an environmental seal really helps is not well documented. Diaphragm regulators are inherently well sealed to begin with. Second stages can be the first to freeze. While freezeups can happen in slightly warmer conditions, they are typically only a problem at 40 degrees F or below water or surface temperatures below freezing. Don't ignore a good deal on a reg just because it isn't "sealed."
3) Realize that many if not most brands of regs being sold today are actually manufactured in Taiwan by Well Marine Diver. While there are differences among brands in features and configuration, there is no reason to believe that there is a difference in build quality.
4) Consider parts and service in your decision. If you plan to service regs yourself, be sure parts are available at retail and are reasonably priced. If you are going to have a dive shop service your regs, be sure there is a shop that works for you, either locally or via mail order.
5) Realize that hoses and the SPG (or console) can be a significant part of the cost of a reg set, and include that in your planning.
6) Be sure that hoses will route well for your chosen configuration and that you have enough ports.
7) Yoke vs. DIN. If you're new to diving, in North America, and will not be purchasing your own tanks, you will probably want a yoke regulator. Otherwise choose carefully based on the type of connection you're likely to encounter on the tanks you use.

Here are some alternatives to consider:
1) You can buy used Conshelf XIV (or later) regulators for around $30 a stage and have them serviced. These are excellent regulators that were popular in the 1970s and early 1980s. Drawbacks are that they don't have the ports for an air-integrated computer or a dry suit, and are hard to find in DIN or with an environmental seal.
1a) Some of the later Conshelf and early Titan regulators are of the same design but have more ports, if that's important to you you can seek those out.
2) The HOG D1 (in DIN only but dealers can convert them to yoke)
3) The newly available Deep Six Gear "Series A" regulator, which is strikingly similar to the HOG D1.

 

[SIUegyptiandiver]

Hmmm, not so sure about all this, but I would add an addendum: Do not buy garage sale/ebay/craigslist/online retailer regulator unless you want to impress the recovery diver by how frugal you were just before it quit working. I dove an Aqualung Micra for years but had to travel an hour and a half one way to have it serviced because I ordered it online and no one in my area (small rural community) was certified to work on them. When I got to a dive site several months later and tried to dive it, it was very wet....they left out a piece or two while putting it back together...I immediately went to the closest (only) local shop and bought one of their regs, which they registered and service conveniently close to home.

it should be good for 2-3 years between services.

really? maybe? could be? In my youth, I dove a Tekna regulator that after 10 years, I decided should probably be looked at for a "check up" ...funny thing, I found out then that the line had been discontinued several years prior and there had been a safety recall that I never got because I never filled out the warranty paperwork. Must have been a really good reg, I guess, cuz I'm still here, OR I got incredibly lucky and learned a valuable lesson. As a new diver, start out with quality gear and plan on annual service. O rings do dry out, salt, sand and silt can collect and lack of use is as damaging as extensive use.

2air, u'r right on with the Conshelf and Titans, they were great regs. I learned on early models of the Conshelf regs, myself. Their biggest problem, though was their best attribute: they were well made. you needed a really strong jaw to hold those Goliaths for an extended dive, but there was something to be said for hearing all the metal pieces working in perfectly timed unison. Ports are good, and since the OP is not sure, a bare minimum of 2 LP ports would be in order in case he needs to attach a dry suit inflation hose or maybe a really cool bubble shooter....

Nihildriven, as a brand new diver, I would strongly recommend working with a local shop who can set you up in quality gear that you can afford. Since you have no idea where you may end up diving in the future, there is no way to know if that future place will have a service tech qualified to work on your reg, but a good reputable manufacturer of current, modern gear can always provide contact information on where to take or send your reg for annual service. I would look at a balanced 2nd stage as a minimum with a balanced, sealed 1st stage if you can swing one in that category. An adjustable resistance 2nd stage is also a sweet option if you plan to do any diving deeper than 100ft. A good safe second is important, you may be the one breathing off of it in an emergency.

Bottom line: this is life support equipment; The only piece of gear I carry with me in carry-on luggage. As a dive professional, I use a high end recreational diving regulator that suits my needs. All three of my family who are infrequent divers, however, are in a less expensive reg with fewer options and adjustments. The likelihood that they will need to rescue a diver at 100+ feet is less than mine, so the cost was not justified for a major upgrade. Most regs made today are quality regs from reputable companies that stand by their products. The biggest difference is in the customer service end of the business. Buy from a seller you cant look in the eye and you run a greater risk than buying from the guy in the shop near home. If he screws you, at least you have the option of deflating his tires and posting nasty things that can really hurt his business on SB and FB.

Good luck and Dive Safe

 

[JohnN]

Hmmm, not so sure about all this, but I would add an addendum: Do not buy garage sale/ebay/craigslist/online retailer regulator unless you want to impress the recovery diver by how frugal you were just before it quit working. I dove an Aqualung Micra for years but had to travel an hour and a half one way to have it serviced because I ordered it online and no one in my area (small rural community) was certified to work on them. When I got to a dive site several months later and tried to dive it, it was very wet....they left out a piece or two while putting it back together...I immediately went to the closest (only) local shop and bought one of their regs, which they registered and service conveniently close to home.




really? maybe? could be? In my youth, I dove a Tekna regulator that after 10 years, I decided should probably be looked at for a "check up" ...funny thing, I found out then that the line had been discontinued several years prior and there had been a safety recall that I never got because I never filled out the warranty paperwork. Must have been a really good reg, I guess, cuz I'm still here, OR I got incredibly lucky and learned a valuable lesson. As a new diver, start out with quality gear and plan on annual service. O rings do dry out, salt, sand and silt can collect and lack of use is as damaging as extensive use.

2air, u'r right on with the Conshelf and Titans, they were great regs. I learned on early models of the Conshelf regs, myself. Their biggest problem, though was their best attribute: they were well made. you needed a really strong jaw to hold those Goliaths for an extended dive, but there was something to be said for hearing all the metal pieces working in perfectly timed unison. Ports are good, and since the OP is not sure, a bare minimum of 2 LP ports would be in order in case he needs to attach a dry suit inflation hose or maybe a really cool bubble shooter....

Nihildriven, as a brand new diver, I would strongly recommend working with a local shop who can set you up in quality gear that you can afford. Since you have no idea where you may end up diving in the future, there is no way to know if that future place will have a service tech qualified to work on your reg, but a good reputable manufacturer of current, modern gear can always provide contact information on where to take or send your reg for annual service. I would look at a balanced 2nd stage as a minimum with a balanced, sealed 1st stage if you can swing one in that category. An adjustable resistance 2nd stage is also a sweet option if you plan to do any diving deeper than 100ft. A good safe second is important, you may be the one breathing off of it in an emergency.

Bottom line: this is life support equipment; The only piece of gear I carry with me in carry-on luggage. As a dive professional, I use a high end recreational diving regulator that suits my needs. All three of my family who are infrequent divers, however, are in a less expensive reg with fewer options and adjustments. The likelihood that they will need to rescue a diver at 100+ feet is less than mine, so the cost was not justified for a major upgrade. Most regs made today are quality regs from reputable companies that stand by their products. The biggest difference is in the customer service end of the business. Buy from a seller you cant look in the eye and you run a greater risk than buying from the guy in the shop near home. If he screws you, at least you have the option of deflating his tires and posting nasty things that can really hurt his business on SB and FB.

Good luck and Dive Safe

Here is what the Jedi Master of extracting every dollar from their customers has to say about service intervals:

Taking Care of Your SCUBAPRO Product
a. Any use of the equipment is conditional to reading, understanding, and following the product-specific user instruction guide.

b. Use of the equipment is limited to those applications described in this guide and for purposes granted in writing from SCUBAPRO.

c. The equipment must be serviced every 24 months or 100 dives (e.g. examined, serviced, and if required, repaired) by an Authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC Dealer. This maintenance must be documented (we suggest our SCUBAPRO Log/Service Book). Only original SCUBAPRO parts should be used for maintenance and repair.

regulators aren't magic, they're a very simple device. You're many times more likely to blow out an O-ring on that rental tank you're using

 

[KevinNM]

2air's regulator purchasing advice for new divers.
While freezeups can happen in slightly warmer conditions, they are typically only a problem at 40 degrees F or below water or surface temperatures below freezing. Don't ignore a good deal on a reg just because it isn't "sealed."

Nope, you can get freezups to 50 degrees, much to the surprise of the Navy Experimental Diving Unit. See Eating Crow – Safe Water Temperatures for Scuba Regulators

 

[runsongas]

Used zeagle regulators can also be a good option. They are diaphragm designs that frequently can be found at good prices used, have good performance, and kits are reasonably easy to get. Their advantage over conshelfs is that they have modern port layouts.

 

[bt7csr]

When I first bought regulators, I planned to have them be the only set I would ever buy. So, I found two of each first and second stages I wanted, and finally found a shop 1000 miles away that would sell them, a dive computer & transmitter, at a great price.

I plan on getting into more advanced diving and want quality gear that I will (in terms of capability) grow into, not gear that I'll grow out of.

If you have an environmentally sealed first stage, you won't ever need to switch to the other one (in this case, the one that isn't environmentally sealed). The same can not be said for the non sealed stage.

Personally, I like the Hollis brand.

 

[2airishuman]

Hmmm, not so sure about all this, but I would add an addendum: Do not buy garage sale/ebay/craigslist/online retailer regulator unless you want to impress the recovery diver by how frugal you were just before it quit working. I dove an Aqualung Micra for years but had to travel an hour and a half one way to have it serviced because I ordered it online and no one in my area (small rural community) was certified to work on them. When I got to a dive site several months later and tried to dive it, it was very wet....they left out a piece or two while putting it back together...I immediately went to the closest (only) local shop and bought one of their regs, which they registered and service conveniently close to home.

I take some quite different lessons from these sorts of stories:
1) The LDS service techs are not perfect. Some are better than others, choose carefully. I am more confident of my own service skills than I am taking pot luck at the LDS. I realize that there are some fantastic, scrupulous service techs and LDS service departments out there in the wider world, that are better than I am, but I don't know how to identify them. Anyway, choose wisely, whether you choose a shop or your own bench
2) No regulator should ever be treated as trustworthy on the first couple dives after it has been serviced (or when new)
3) I like to carry an extra regulator set with me if I am diving someplace where I cannot readily rent/borrow one if I encounter unexpected problems. My modest taste in regulators makes this affordable.

2air, u'r right on with the Conshelf and Titans, they were great regs. I learned on early models of the Conshelf regs, myself. Their biggest problem, though was their best attribute: they were well made. you needed a really strong jaw to hold those Goliaths for an extended dive, but there was something to be said for hearing all the metal pieces working in perfectly timed unison.

The metal second stages are heavy but I believe they are more reliable in cold water due to the better thermal properties of metal vs. plastic.

Ports are good, and since the OP is not sure, a bare minimum of 2 LP ports would be in order in case he needs to attach a dry suit inflation hose or maybe a really cool bubble shooter....

Conshelf XII had only the two LP ports, not enough for a modern recreational configuration. XIV had three LP ports, works for me, two 2nd stages and the BC, if you really want a drysuit or bubble shooter you can use a Y adapter. These had a 3/16" HP port but suitable HP hoses are available as are adapters. Some of the later ones had four LP ports and the 7/16" HP port, not sure of all the model designations, but my DIN one is like that.

Nihildriven, as a brand new diver, I would strongly recommend working with a local shop who can set you up in quality gear that you can afford. Since you have no idea where you may end up diving in the future, there is no way to know if that future place will have a service tech qualified to work on your reg, but a good reputable manufacturer of current, modern gear can always provide contact information on where to take or send your reg for annual service.

They are also in business to make money and will sell you a $3000 setup with an Atomic Titanium regulator and a hoseless air integrated computer, if they think you can afford it.

Bottom line: this is life support equipment; The only piece of gear I carry with me in carry-on luggage. As a dive professional, I use a high end recreational diving regulator that suits my needs. All three of my family who are infrequent divers, however, are in a less expensive reg with fewer options and adjustments. The likelihood that they will need to rescue a diver at 100+ feet is less than mine, so the cost was not justified for a major upgrade.

My <$200 reg set is good to any recreational depth and I would be comfortable using it in a rescue situation at those depths. It is not necessary to buy expensive regs from the LDS to have a dependable kit.

regulators aren't magic, they're a very simple device. You're many times more likely to blow out an O-ring on that rental tank you're using

Good advice. I anticipate inspecting my regs annually but not necessarily servicing them annually.

Nope, you can get freezups to 50 degrees, much to the surprise of the Navy Experimental Diving Unit. See Eating Crow – Safe Water Temperatures for Scuba Regulators

Oh, I agree that you can. But it's unusual. I've logged a dozen dives in sub-50 degree water without a single freezeup.

See also this longer article by the same author: here, starting at page 45 in the PDF.

One of the conclusions was that 2nd stage regulators are more likely to freeze up than 1st stages, which I found interesting, given the focus on sealing the 1st stage spring. I believe that my metal Aqua Lung 2nd stages are less prone to freeze up than my plastic HOG classic, but I don't have any evidence to back that up.