Feb 19 2017 Cozumel diving fatality

[gfaith]

Where are folks on the issue for requiring divers to carry SMB's or DM's carrying a donatable extra? As I understand it launching a buoy has become part of the PADI OW course. My personal opinion is that they should be encouraged but not required and not donated unless the donor is very sure the recipient understands and is experienced in their use.

It astounds me that any diver in Cozumel doesn't carry a DSMB. At less three times, I have needed and used mine in Cozumel. Currents can spread groups quickly as you know, and I follow my camera carrying buddy (wife) like a hawk even when we get separated from the group. I am usually against mandating rules, but I would strongly encourage all divers to carry one. Inflate it at depth (best) or at the surface if they can't do it at the SS .. better than nothing.

I have donated mine to DMs and one instructor when they had issues.. Not long ago, we were on a boat in Cozumel when a lady did not come up with the group, and didn't have a SMB with her. Luckily, no boat ran her over, and an Aldora boat spotted her and brought her to our boat her husband was p***ed (at her) to say the least. Of course, he was her buddy and came up before her too. hhmmmm

 

[tankdives]

A ton of armchair quarterbacking in this thread right now. And anyone who thinks the DM is your lifeline or savior wasnt paying attention in their OW course. They are dive guides. Not your own personal safety insurance policy. You dive, you are responsible for your self. If that doesnt work for you, find a different sport.

Which manual are you referring to? Because I don't remember seeing anything about DM responsibility in the OW, AWD or rescue PADI manuals. Got a page number? I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Dive operations are not forthcoming about what DM responsibilities are - specifically that they are NOT there to assist you in an emergency. Why not be upfront with people? Bad for business, methinks.

 

[Centrals]

There is fundamental difference between dive guide and dive master.
Unless it is 1 to 1 otherwise you cannot expect the guide/master to assist you in an emergency EVERY TIME. How about if there are TWO OAA cases at the same time?

Hire your own personal baby sitter.

 

[John Bantin]

I want to say to Ravenware, how my heart goes out to you and your husband. You did the right thing. You tried to help, and quickly realized that you could not without jeopardizing your own safety, you ascended and quickly signaled for help. I can not imagine how hard this is for you. You have the support of your fellow divers.

It is tragic and my heart goes out to this young woman and her family.

With that being said, I do need to ask a couple of questions to the group here.
First of all, I live in Cozumel full time, I have been diving in Cozumel for 22 years and moved here five years ago.
I have read through a lot of these comments and I see several things that are very concerning to me.
First and most importantly -- How many times did divers here on this board mention in other comments about the "faulty, stuck or disconnected", power inflator valve?? (Speculative at this point, but let's explore that situation.)
Out of those of you that made that comment to the fact, how many of you have over 50 scuba dives? Or have advanced certifications? As tragic as this is, there is a very disturbing issue here and one I hope that I can bring to light, before someone else makes a mistake. PLEASE!

The inflator valve is connected to a LOW PRESSURE hose. Please think about that for a moment.
1.) If the inflator button gets stuck, you can easily disconnect the hose underwater.
2.) Many people can easily reconnect the hose underwater (most of the time).
3.) If you can not reconnect the hose underwater, then you can easily manually inflate your BC, orally!! This is one of the first things you learn to do when you get certified.

If you have somehow forgotten this basic skill/exercise when you first got certified, then you need to get into a pool or a safe shallow area and PRACTICE this skill. I am shocked how many people are bringing this up as if it weren't easily resolved above or underwater! To me, that is extremely concerning.

PS DiverJ1234 - You said you don't speak Spanish, (at least by your comment it appears you do not) and, as you stated, you are relatively inexperienced divers, then why are making all these assumptions (too many too even start listing here). It is a VERY unfortunate and sad event but you are not helping anything by quoting "rumor" as you stated and making speculations (based on what fact). I am very sorry for everyone involved but I do not see how you are helping the situation at all. I am so sorry you were witness to this tragedy.

Alas, people who do not dive regularly soon forget how to inflate their BCs orally, and very few would remember to drop their weights in a crisis. I have had personal experience seeing this and the result is often tragic.

As for resuscitation, I am amazed at the confidence so many put in it, when there has been no mention of a defibrillator carried on board any boat. I have done CPR on a drowned diver and turned him from green to a healthy looking pink but without a defibrillator he has not simply come back to life.

There is also a tendency among consumers to abdicate their safety to the care of others which can be a fatal mistake.

 

[NAM001]

Which manual are you referring to? Because I don't remember seeing anything about DM responsibility in the OW, AWD or rescue PADI manuals. Got a page number? I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Dive operations are not forthcoming about what DM responsibilities are - specifically that they are NOT there to assist you in an emergency. Why not be upfront with people? Bad for business, methinks.

Really unfair statement made. But I will go; with it.
Who is responsible for your safety (per the book) chapter and page? I know no one that has told me that their safety is the responsibility of someone else. The OW course tells you your safety is your job. Its your responsibility to be fit. proficient, knoledgable, and capable do the dive planned. If not you don't do the dive. Instructors will always add that when you are on a boat or the like even if they set up your gear you are still responsible to make sure it is right for you. You don't trusts that the aie in turned on you verify it. Because it is you that pays the price and not the gear monkey. Things like that does not have to be on a page in a book. Secondly you cant put things like that in a book cause different jurisdictions have different reglations. IE Mexico has to have a DM or guide in the water if I am not mistaken. USA does not.

This is a major hard spot when it comes to newby's making ocean dives thinking they have a guardian angle responsible for them all the time.

 

[DanBMW]

The two things I have taken from this terrible tragedy are: 1. Always dive with a competent buddy and 2. Know your gear. In an emergency, unless you have trained for it, on a regular basis, it is unlikely that you will always do what is necessary. Just diving is not training.

 

[ReefGuy]

We were diving with friends on a private boat. Diving aluminum tanks which we don't usually dive. Both of us were underweighted. I could not get that groups attention without losing sight of her, the current was probably 3 knots. Doing fine on our own, but even with fully inflating both our BCs we could not get her off the reef. We could not inflate her BC, decided it would be better to get more help. I don't know for sure, but I suspect her lungs were full of water. She was just too heavy for us.

Please don't take this as criticism, it's not. I think that for the situation you were in you did an outstanding job. I just want to point out that you never use your BC as a lift bag. First rule of rescue is to not create another victim. x2 for recoveries.

Drowning victims are almost always < 15lbs negative, but combined with the weightbelt would have made her heavy, the air in her lungs had little to do with it.

Just one other bit of information. I saw you make a couple of references to her position. I wouldn't read too much into that. Every drowning victim I've recovered that wasn't entangled was in pretty much that exact position (fetal).

 

[KDAD]

Third thing to take away: The person in the water with you may only be a guide there to show you the reef and help carry your gear. You should know how to and should be setting your own gear up.

The person in the water may be a rescue qualified dm as well but unless you know that specifically they aren't. Don't assume it. Also, when something happens they may be taking care of someone else and still have the rest of the group to take care of. Have a good buddy and be self-sufficient.

You know, you go to these nice tropical places to dive and see three locals on the boat when it pulls up to pick you up and you think "Great I have three dive Masters." When actually one is there just to drive the boat, one is there just as a spotter and out of the two of them possible neither has any dive experience and the third is just a guide for the reef and has no Rescue Training but yet you all stake your lives on them. Not to say that every locale or dive op operates this way but how do you really know how things will go down in an emergency.

Are they a dive master or a Dive Master?

 

[lionfish-eater]

where did you ever get the idea that dm's are there to protect or save you?
If you are in training classes with an instructor there is a higher level of oversight.
Some dm's swim backwards looking at their divers to make sure they don't hurt themselves, but this is usually when the divers are novices. They want you to be safe, but they also don't want to have to deal with an accident so they watch their noob divers to avoid having to deal with the aftermath that would affect them emotionally and professionally.

 

[DandyDon]

very few would remember to drop their weights in a crisis.

I physically practice dropping my weights on the first dive of every trip. I think it's a good practice and we could suggest this to others.

As for resuscitation, I am amazed at the confidence so many put in it, when there has been no mention of a defibrillator carried on board any boat. I have done CPR on a drowned diver and turned him from green to a healthy looking pink but without a defibrillator he has not simply come back to life.

I know, I've heard that, and we are not going to see those on Coz pangas, but it's still worth a try. On land, compressions only seem to work, but with a drowning - gotta include rescue breathing.

There is also a tendency among consumers to abdicate their safety to the care of others which can be a fatal mistake.

This is a major hard spot when it comes to newby's making ocean dives thinking they have a guardian angle responsible for them all the time.

where did you ever get the idea that dm's are there to protect or save you?

All too often this is suggested in the Coz forum here on SB, and worse - telling solo travelers that they can just buddy with the DM. Buddying with the DM is solo diving to me. I'm fine with that, but I do travel with my own 19 cf pony.