Differences in cavern vs cavern+intro

[rjack321]

I've emailed one instructor in Mexico so far and this is exactly what we discussed. I was really glad this was offered as an option. Is this common in Florida as well?
And, yeah, not really going for a card at this point. Honestly, if I decided to actually pursue this as a regular part of my diving, I would aim to go the GUE route.

Most of the better FL based non-GUE instructors are happy to just arrange for "class days" and work out what card you qualify for latter (cavern or cavern+intro) Since GUE doesn't have a "cavern" course (in part because any cavern can turn into a cave quickly) their program is more limiting but I know many students who haven't been able to finish Cave1 in Mexico who were encouraged to cavern dive (no card makes getting into some sites a challenge) to help hone their skills before finishing the course another time.

Planning a week in FL and doing 6 class days will get you into a bunch of different caves and at least through cavern.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I took Cavern and Intro together, then made a lot of dives at the Intro level then came back back and finished through Full Cave. It's been a few years so I don't recall the specifics of what we did when during my class. I do recall blacked out mask in OW in the basin following a line and the same with air sharing during Cavern. It was a different experience from the same drills in an actual cave during Intro. Basically as you progress the drills and conditions get a little more involved.

Practice bouyancy and kicks and your trim. A Tech pass in Fundies is very helpful but not required for non GUE classes. As mentioned, dialog with your Instructor or those you are considering is extremely helpful. If you plan on eventually going GUE then mention that to your possible instructors and/or talk with GUE divers for recommendations. There are great instructors from many agencies, do your research as there are a few duds too.

Try not to to overthink it.

 

[CptTightPants21]

If you have zero technical experience or your skills aren’t up to par (GUE rec pass level), then I could see breaking up Cavern and Intro and treating Cavern like an intro to tech class with some cave experience kicker. If you have a Rec pass and are looking to get a real taste of cave diving to see if you want to progress the whole way, you should definitely take Cavern/Intro together. In my opinion, Cavern by itself isn’t enough to get a fair taste. It may cover most of the same skills, but there is a whole other experience that can’t be duplicated in cavern when you go past the sign. It’s the equivalent to swimming around a reef at 20ft vs swimming a wall at 80ft, similar in skillset, but totally unique.

I would definitely recommend getting some practice dives in before progressing to the APP/Full level. To get experience and to enjoy it outside of a class setting. When I finished intro, I thought cave diving was “fine”, something to blow bubbles with. I wasn’t able to do another cave dive for a couple months after class, but my first cave dive was a totally eye opening experience that I enjoyed immensely.

For trips that involve taking a class, I recommend a minimum of 6 days of diving (4 class, 2 fun). Given your location, I am a fan of the 9/10 day trips where I leave on a Thur/Fri afternoon and get back the next Sat or Sun (4 days of class, 4 days of fun diving).

 

[Lorenzoid]

I took a stand-alone Cavern class (in FL) because I was antsy for something to do in the meantime while I continue to work on my skills in doubles and drysuit. I am undecided whether to continue on the GUE route I have been on--I'm still not ready for a tech upgrade. The task loading in Cavern class made it abundantly clear I wasn't ready for more. The biggest takeaway from Cavern for me was simply getting a taste of a new environment. Essentially all of my diving had been in tropical water with 100' visibility. I underestimated how difficult I would find it to do (and remember) things, task loaded, in the dark confines of a FL cavern. Holding a light while operating a reel, watching my turn pressure, watching my bottom time, trying to stay oriented, all while maintaining buoyancy and trim--it was a lot for me. Every skill seemed so simple by itself. But piled together, it turned out to be a lot for me at the time.

I get the impression you're all squared away with drysuit and doubles, and that the environment you are accustomed to diving in out in the Pacific is reasonably challenging. If so, then I don't see why you would consider stopping at Cavern level, as Cavern will be a breeze for you.

Edit: If you are anywhere close to getting a tech pass in Fundies, then I think you should just forge ahead on that route, as jeffmg advises below.

 

[Doby45]

When I just took my class it was originally suggested by my instructor to take 5 days for the Cavern/Intro class. Two days would be for Cavern and then a day of "Practice what you learned" and then two days for Intro. I ended up just doing 4 days as I felt I was pretty squared away and my buddy that was going to take both classes with me had dropped out. I was then going to be taking Cavern with one buddy (unknown to me) and Intro was to be done with another buddy (knew this guy and he already had Cavern). As I had already done training with SDI/TDI I had my card a week later in the mail.

 

[jeffmg]

reading through your blog it looks like your halfway through a Fundies course already with a recommendation to put some work in and push for a tech pass when you come back for the second half
Then if you take cave 1 in florida or mexico you get to dive in caves and continue with the standardized instruction that you've already paid for
I'm still only cave 1 but getting to go into the cave is way more worthwhile of a training trip

 

[elgoog]

Most of the better FL based non-GUE instructors are happy to just arrange for "class days" and work out what card you qualify for latter (cavern or cavern+intro)

I certainly got this impression with non-GUE instructors in Mexico .i.e. the default training and cost structure is 1:1. From what I can see, learning in a team of 2 or 3 seems to be the norm in Florida. Is this accurate? If so, then it might get challenging arranging the "class days" method as our (students) expectations may be very different.

In my opinion, Cavern by itself isn’t enough to get a fair taste. It may cover most of the same skills, but there is a whole other experience that can’t be duplicated in cavern when you go past the sign.

Totally agree. This is purely psychological but even for my current desire of just wanting to see what overhead diving is like, cavern doesn't feel "real" enough.

I would definitely recommend getting some practice dives in before progressing to the APP/Full level. To get experience and to enjoy it outside of a class setting. When I finished intro, I thought cave diving was “fine”, something to blow bubbles with. I wasn’t able to do another cave dive for a couple months after class, but my first cave dive was a totally eye opening experience that I enjoyed immensely.

Agree again. For me, the other big thing will be how often I can practically make a trip to dive caves that will decide how far down (up?) the training ladder I go. I definitely want to be able to do at least 1-2 week long trips every year . If I can't do that then I'm either not that interested in diving caves or not able to do it enough to maintain the required level of proficiency I feel like I would need. My current thought is to do 1 trip to Florida and 1 to Mexico after the training, just to get fun dives in before moving forward. This way I'll also get a taste for both locations and have another bit of info to help me decide where to train more.

For trips that involve taking a class, I recommend a minimum of 6 days of diving (4 class, 2 fun). Given your location, I am a fan of the 9/10 day trips where I leave on a Thur/Fri afternoon and get back the next Sat or Sun (4 days of class, 4 days of fun diving).

Logistics, for me, are certainly in favor of the 9-10 day option.

I get the impression you're all squared away with drysuit and doubles,

That's being extremely generous. I have 3 dives in doubles so far since my workshop a week ago. My dive travel calendar for 2017 is pretty full so the earliest I anticipate being able to do this class is November or December this year. I try to dive locally 1 day every week and the hope is that I'll have a fair bit more experience and comfort in drysuit+doubles by the time the cave class rolls around.

and that the environment you are accustomed to diving in out in the Pacific is reasonably challenging.

That does help, I think. At the very least, it's because I use the exact same gear config I would use in caves.

Then if you take cave 1 in florida or mexico you get to dive in caves and continue with the standardized instruction that you've already paid for

Maybe it's just me but I think GUE Cave 1 is too big of a jump for someone who has never been in an overhead, learned how to run a line, etc.

Try not to to overthink it.

Yeah, right

 

[rjack321]

I certainly got this impression with non-GUE instructors in Mexico .i.e. the default training and cost structure is 1:1. From what I can see, learning in a team of 2 or 3 seems to be the norm in Florida. Is this accurate? If so, then it might get challenging arranging the "class days" method as our (students) expectations may be very different.

It's not up to you to arrange that. Ask/tell your chosen instructor what you want and let them worry about the rest of the class (unless you bring your own buddy). I would not do any 1:1 cavern or cave training. If the instructor can't fill out the class then find a different class. Being 1:1 is too contrived and everything is instructor setup and you don't get any peer to peer learning going on between students. GUE classes are never 1:1 for exactly this reason.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
Maybe it's just me but I think GUE Cave 1 is too big of a jump for someone who has never been in an overhead, learned how to run a line, etc.

That was part of my thinking in taking Cavern, too. However, the leap to overhead environment for me, having experienced all my diving in pristine tropical conditions in a wetsuit, is greater than for you, having experience with the full doubles, drysuit, can light, etc., GUE gear configuration in Monterey waters. That said, you and I would not be the first who have felt this way. A mentor of mine who is active on SB took a similar route. GUE's philosophy that a cavern can become a cave real quick, and therefore the safest route is to go directly to cave training, appeals to me. But I imagine it can be daunting for a Cave 1 student to have never even experienced what it feels like inside a cavern until Day 2 of the course.

You can't go wrong taking a stand-alone Cavern course. It's not a big commitment, and it would give you a feel for the overhead. If you plan on doing your diving in Florida, take it there. In fact, if getting accustomed to an overhead is the main objective, consider taking it there even if you plan to dive mostly in Mexico. I have done a few cenote tours, and they were just too pretty and full of tourists like me to instill in me that I was in a hostile environment. Florida caverns are the real deal--no light shimmering through swiss cheese openings all over the place, just a passage leading into the rock and getting darker and darker. It really shows you the definition of "cavern," as the agencies define it. If you can enjoy that, you can enjoy any cave in Mexico.

 

[Doby45]

Also at the Cavern level you do not "have" to be in full on cave gear. Recreational gear with some minor tweaks is more than fine for Cavern.