Controlling and reducing air consumption

[tarponchik]

Because it is controlled I breathing is much slower and more controlled I find myself breathing lime this all the time without thinking

Do you have prove that this actually saves air? "Controlled" does not necessary mean "low consumption".

 

[Littlerayray]

I've proven it to myself when I started diving before I was relaxed I would burn through a 108lp in less then 45 minutes at 30ft after I started slowing my breathing and being relaxed the same dive same conditions same temps my tank would last me over 1hr and ten minutes

 

[halocline]

With regards to physical fitness, it's about resting cardiac and respiration rate. The fitter you are, the lower those rates are. So for a similar amount of physical exertion, fitter divers will have the ability to breathe less heavily.

Relaxation is primarily a state of mind (and body, but really controlled by the brain) and certainly state of mind affects respiration greatly. Any anxiety or apprehension will really increase heart rate and breathing. How do you think lie detectors work?

Something really simple that often doesn't get mentioned is just swimming ability. Good swimmers tend to be more efficient and less anxious in the water. While diving isn't exactly the same as surface swimming, new divers who want to improve their overall performance in the water would do well to spend some time swimming.

 

[tarponchik]

With regards to physical fitness, it's about resting cardiac and respiration rate. The fitter you are, the lower those rates are. So for a similar amount of physical exertion, fitter divers will have the ability to breathe less heavily.

Relaxation is primarily a state of mind (and body, but really controlled by the brain) and certainly state of mind affects respiration greatly. Any anxiety or apprehension will really increase heart rate and breathing. How do you think lie detectors work?

Something really simple that often doesn't get mentioned is just swimming ability. Good swimmers tend to be more efficient and less anxious in the water. While diving isn't exactly the same as surface swimming, new divers who want to improve their overall performance in the water would do well to spend some time swimming.

I've heard the fitness argument before and I rebutted it here on scubaboard. Fitness is about the body's ability to make more energy while breathing heavily. When people run or bike etc they adopt themselves to use more oxygen, not less. Thus, fitness has nothing to do with the efficiency of air consumption. I have a working prove of this next to me when I dive: my wife is not fit at all, but she consumes even less air than I do.

Relaxation vs. anxiety is another story, I agree with this one.

Good swimming too. Again, I already gave this advice before: keep your hands close to your body and do not bend your knees when you kick. Because when you bend you push yourself backwards.

 

[halocline]

I've heard the fitness argument before and I rebutted it here on scubaboard. Fitness is about the body's ability to make more energy while breathing heavily. When people run or bike etc they adopt themselves to use more oxygen, not less. Thus, fitness has nothing to do with the efficiency of air consumption. I have a working prove of this next to me when I dive: my wife is not fit at all, but she consumes even less air than I do.

No offense, but this is absolute nonsense. People with high levels of cardiovascular fitness breathe less heavily and have lower heart rates doing the same amount of work that less fit people do. How could anyone possibly argue otherwise?

Of course fitness allows you to process more O2 and expel more CO2, but that does not translate into using more air for the same level of work....it means you can do more work. Try taking an unfit person and a fit person (equal swimming ability) and have them swim side-by-side for several hundred meters and see which one is breathing more heavily at the end. Or the same two people walking up stairs, or running around a track. Diving is no different, it's just a lower level of cardiovascular stress.

Regarding you and your wife's air consumption, I'm sure that you can understand that it's hardly "proof" of whatever nutty theory you have that she uses less air than you do.

 

[dmaziuk]

I've heard the fitness argument before and I rebutted it here on scubaboard. Fitness is about the body's ability to make more energy while breathing heavily. When people run or bike etc they adopt themselves to use more oxygen, not less. Thus, fitness has nothing to do with the efficiency of air consumption. I have a working prove of this next to me when I dive: my wife is not fit at all, but she consumes even less air than I do.

In addition to what @halocline says, jumprope and jumping jacks are two specific exercises for breathing less heavy while making more energy. And all of oriental martial arts are based on breathing. And then of course there's levels of fitness where they train at altitude to condition themselves to make more energy from less O2.

Whether your more efficient O2 use automatically translates to lower breathing rate on scuba may be another question, but by and large it seems to.

I was once on a boat with a lady who surfaced from every dive with 1000+ psi instead of everyone else's 500-800 (boat logged end pressures). Some people just have gills.

 

[peterak]

What has photosensitivity to do with this?

He's suggesting that excessive effort to control breathing can lead to sustained mild hypoxia which can have all sorts of neurological effects, including photosensitivity. I think the point is well taken.

 

[tarponchik]

No offense, but this is absolute nonsense. People with high levels of cardiovascular fitness breathe less heavily and have lower heart rates doing the same amount of work that less fit people do. How could anyone possibly argue otherwise?

Of course fitness allows you to process more O2 and expel more CO2, but that does not translate into using more air for the same level of work....it means you can do more work. Try taking an unfit person and a fit person (equal swimming ability) and have them swim side-by-side for several hundred meters and see which one is breathing more heavily at the end. Or the same two people walking up stairs, or running around a track. Diving is no different, it's just a lower level of cardiovascular stress.

Regarding you and your wife's air consumption, I'm sure that you can understand that it's hardly "proof" of whatever nutty theory you have that she uses less air than you do.

No offense, but you are not capable of asking the right questions to get the right answers. In recreational scuba, you are not doing any work; in fact, you hardly move, so your fitness level is completely irrelevant overall. The level of workout on a dive is about the same as walking slowly in a museum from one painting to another. You don't even need to bend up and down, like when you pull out weeds in your garden, or push the Hoover when you clean your house. Therefore, the experiments that you suggested, i e running, walking up the stairs, etc are also irrelevant. If you've asked the wrong question, the answer does not matter. So yes, diving is different because it is a lower level of cardiovascular stress.

Now, back to air consumption, putting the word "proof" in quotes won't help your case because my wife who loathed endurance exercise all her life, will outbreathe you on a dive, despite all your triathlons and crossfits. You will come up with 500 and she will come up with a solid 1000. I will come up with a 1000 too, but for a different reason. To understand why, all you need is to ask the right questions...

 

[tarponchik]

He's suggesting that excessive effort to control breathing can lead to sustained mild hypoxia which can have all sorts of neurological effects, including photosensitivity. I think the point is well taken.

I was not able to find any references on such kind of photosensitivity. But, anyway, does this mean that free divers can become photosensitive? They hold their breath for up to 10 min (the world record is 11+ min, if memory serves).

 

[tarponchik]

In addition to what @halocline says, jumprope and jumping jacks are two specific exercises for breathing less heavy while making more energy. And all of oriental martial arts are based on breathing. And then of course there's levels of fitness where they train at altitude to condition themselves to make more energy from less O2.

Whether your more efficient O2 use automatically translates to lower breathing rate on scuba may be another question, but by and large it seems to.

I was once on a boat with a lady who surfaced from every dive with 1000+ psi instead of everyone else's 500-800 (boat logged end pressures). Some people just have gills.

Well, you are certainly digging deeper than @halocline though you are also prone to bringing up irrelevant matter, like martial arts. Yes, they control breathing. But no, for our question this does not matter. But with the altitude training you hit close to home, for my case at least. While an average human being, whether an athlet or a slouch, uses only about 20% of the inhaled oxygen, I am probably better than that.

As for that lady you met and my wife, the answer is very simple. Their small bodies with relatively high fat and low lean muscle percentage do not need much oxygen at low levels of activity. Yes, my wife's pulse is 65 at rest while an athlet's is 55. But the athlet's big heart still pumps more blood, albeit with fewer strokes. Women like them take less air because they need less oxygen. I take less air because I process it more efficiently.