Feinstein introduces legislation to improve passenger vessel safety

[cerich]

I don't see anything in the proposal that really bugs me other than egress. How the regulations are drafted to support the law will be key. No grandfathering and extensive work needed to meet will do huge damage to charter ops, diving and otherwise that overnight.

That said, I am still stuck on the fact that it has become Crystal clear that existing regulations were ignored by many overnight if not most dive charters and it is something that a large portion bof the dive industry and even dive consumer has defended.

I can recall having talks with Wookie when he still ran Spree, and his frustration at being in compliance in letter and spirit for safety and how it made it unprofitable because others didn't and thus charged less setting the price point the consumer was willing to accept. I was actually naive, and couldn't believe that ops weren't following the law.

 

[Michael Jastrzebski]

the legislation was spurred by the Ca. accident but the contents of the bill was in response to many accidents over the years
.

I doubt it, I don’t recall any similar accidents where number of exits was an issue. I think it is Feinstein’s another purely political venture.

 

[Glenn Williams]

Anytime regulation is introduced by the government it is a power grab and takes away people’s liberties.

That said I personally think that what we have on the books now is adequate. Had the crew did what they were supposed to do i.e. have a roving fire watch, the incident could have been minimized or prevented altogether.

The coast guard can’t be everywhere all the time so laws are only as good as you enforce them.

Adding regulation may look good and make people think the government is here to protect you, but it’s all smoke and mirrors.

Bottom line is have a roving guard, ensure there is adequate fire fighting equipment and it is accessible and have exits that are not blocked and easily accessed in an emergency. A thorough Pre sail brief should be performed by the crew as well.

Adding more laws that can’t and won’t be enforced is just pure over reach from the government, don’t want to get political here but Feinstein has a record of doing just that.

My 2 cents worth

Glenn

 

[Diving Dubai]

The writing of regulations can be very difficult - I have experience being on committees examining and amending National regulations with my area(s) of expertise

Generally you need some latitude to account for variables, but at the same time being rigid enough that its fit for purpose, as well as havign a process for inspection and enforcement.

It's quite clear and obvious to even the casual observer that the over bunk exit hatch while meeting the "the letter of the regs" didn't meet the spirit of them. Obviously there was fault in the interpretation of the regs, or that the regs weren't specific enough (size/ direct access)

In UK parlance, we have a phrase written in to our safety regs, "As safe as reasonably practical" This is a catch all allowing some latitude with regard to cost vs risk. However you need to ensure your decisions can withstand scrutiny in a court of law.

 

[lexvil]

I wonder how people would feel if the over road trucking industry hadn’t been regulated, things like number of times a tire can be re-treaded? Sure treads come off and you still see them along the roads but not nearly as much as there used to be, break inspection and testing, hours driving before rest requirements? All burdensome on the trucking industry but I hate to think of what would happen on today’s roads with dollar driven mindsets.

To dismiss the desire to make things safer as “politics” is asinine unless you can imagine the family survivors coming to you and you saying , go away the regulations are to burdensome for the boat business. On the other hand I don’t want to see regulations that don’t matter or won’t help, it seems better egress that is clearly marked, smoke detectors and some control over battery charging are not only sensible but not overly burdensome. These proposed changes may never be shown to make a difference because the incidence of out of control fires is already so low but...

Things have changed on the boats and one of the biggest is the battery issue and we may never know if this was the problem but if a few things come under scrutiny and it never happens again, I for one don’t think that’s a good outcome.

 

[tursiops]

Anytime regulation is introduced by the government it is a power grab and takes away people’s liberties.

I don't need to read the rest of this post.

 

[Schwob]

Disclaimer: I am speaking as an ignorant consumer here, fearing for his life ... or maybe more accurately, married to one such...:
Is safety inspection data of boats publicly accessible?
In an organized summarized way?
Is there a (meaningful) rating system of sorts that potential customers could use to guide themselves on the amount of risk they might take seething footboard a vessel?
IDK, like (complete phantasy construct and just in regards to fire... Just as a (stupid) example )of course a certain seaworthiness and inherent robustness are also desired):
A - meets all standards, is constructed mostly out of materials known to be fire resistant and has multiple appropriate fire doors and proper use policy to keep any fire effectively restraint to one area of the boat for a duration that allows for proper and safe evacuation of passengers if so indicated without necessitating water entry.
B - same as A, but maybe more flammable materials, but still with effective fire doors etc.
C - You are going to get out you may get wet and cold
D - Functional safe boat with a chance of survival, but think hard before choosing to sleep below.
E - It‘s not bad enough yet to use it as an artificial reef, but think harder before setting foot on it!

Anyway, I have no particular trust that more or redundant regulation will fix anything that maybe is broke. I do think that enforcement tends to help. I do know that meaningful ratings, while defeatable or possibly outdated if the system setup to arrive at them is more flawed than good, allow customers to make a more informed choice.

Akin to some may have a reason to buy a vehicle with bettetet crash test rating & and some may have a reason to not take that particular rating much into account. Some may choose not to fly an airline with a dismal safety record, some will choose to go where it goes... but all had the option to know what they chose. And a hardware (boat) rating like that of course does not speak to crew and policies, ... just like car crash test ratings don‘t say a thing about drivers...

 

[Wookie]

Disclaimer: I am speaking as an ignorant consumer here, fearing for his life ... or maybe more accurately, married to one such...:
Is safety inspection data of boats publicly accessible?

Yes

In an organized summarized way?

Yes

Is there a (meaningful) rating system of sorts that potential customers could use to guide themselves on the amount of risk they might take seething footboard a vessel?

No

IDK, like (complete phantasy construct and just in regards to fire... Just as a (stupid) example )of course a certain seaworthiness and inherent robustness are also desired):
A - meets all standards, is constructed mostly out of materials known to be fire resistant and has multiple appropriate fire doors and proper use policy to keep any fire effectively restraint to one area of the boat for a duration that allows for proper and safe evacuation of passengers if so indicated without necessitating water entry.
B - same as A, but maybe more flammable materials, but still with effective fire doors etc.
C - You are going to get out you may get wet and cold
D - Functional safe boat with a chance of survival, but think hard before choosing to sleep below.
E - It‘s not bad enough yet to use it as an artificial reef, but think harder before setting foot on it!

Anyway, I have no particular trust that more or redundant regulation will fix anything that maybe is broke. I do think that enforcement tends to help. I do know that meaningful ratings, while defeatable or possibly outdated if the system setup to arrive at them is more flawed than good, allow customers to make a more informed choice.

Akin to some may have a reason to buy a vehicle with bettetet crash test rating & and some may have a reason to not take that particular rating much into account. Some may choose not to fly an airline with a dismal safety record, some will choose to go where it goes... but all had the option to know what they chose. And a hardware (boat) rating like that of course does not speak to crew and policies, ... just like car crash test ratings don‘t say a thing about drivers...

Auto manufacturers pay for those crash tests, and operate on a different plane of existence than liveaboard dive boats.

At some point, you and your nervous dive buddy have to ask the dive operator questions they may or may not want to answer, and be willing to spend your diving dollars going elsewhere.

 

[muzikbiz22]

I think it is Feinstein’s another purely political venture.

Precisely.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I doubt Dianne came up with these proposals on her own, I don’t think she knows a bow from a stern.
I’m sure she must have had advice from many other sources.
Not that it really matters, I’m just saying.