PADI and technology (what’s the deal with e-cards?)

[MargaritaMike]

Some places you may dive can be so far off the grid they may not have the ability to surf the web for your information.

I think this whole arguement is silly.

Phones are fallible. They break, get lost, fail to charge etc etc etc.

Go ahead and travel three days to get to Triton Bay in West Papua, get there and have phone failure, and spend your vacation sitting on the beach drinking.

Written and stamped, signed, or whatever dive logs also help. Take your last or last couple or a printed version of your electronic log book with you, especially if you know you are going to a remote location. Just like you keep a copy of you passport. Be a boy (girl) scout - BE PREPARED!

Cheers - M²

 

[oly5050user]

RIght, but the Jr card has some age related restrictions on it which are not present on the regular card. So the question is, would a 25 year old diver who showed a Jr AOW card and a drivers license still be subject to the restrictions of the Jr. card?

Card is ow no age restrictions

 

[RainPilot]

NAUI and SSI are both digital first, with physical cards available at a small cost

Sadly, not. This screen grab from certifying a NAUI student recently:

The idea of paying extra for the digital card really grinds my gears. RAID is the only agency I have taught for that only has digital cards. I believe there is a plastic one available at a small fee but nobody I know ever used that. Also, nobody I know of has ever been refused a dive with their RAID certificates.

 

[nippurmagnum]

I just took pictures of my hard cards and added them to my dive app on my phone. I also have the pictures on the phone.(and laptop, and tablet and in the cloud and...)

Not going to Put Another Dollar In just to get an electronic card when I can snap a photo for free and it is just as good.

I did this as well, and I have never had a dive shop or liveaboard fail to accept the picture of the c-card.

 

[CuriousRambler]

Some places you may dive can be so far off the grid they may not have the ability to surf the web for your information.

I think this whole arguement is silly.

Phones are fallible. They break, get lost, fail to charge etc etc etc.

Go ahead and travel three days to get to Triton Bay in West Papua, get there and have phone failure, and spend your vacation sitting on the beach drinking.

I'm not disagreeing with your points, but they apply to what?...0.05% of certified divers? Less? The average vacation diver will never be that far off the grid, nevermind the fact that "the grid" reaches farther and farther every day, and these remote places are becoming connected at an ever accelerating rate. Your romantic visions of disconnected nirvana are coming to an end in the not too distant future. That's simply a fact.

Applying the logic that an extremely exclusive minority of dedicated divers *could maybe* wind up in a bind *if their phones break or die* while traveling to an equally exclusive destination means that relying on technology isn't a reliable solution for anyone just doesn't make any sense. What happens if I'm traveling to the same location and my card gets lost or stolen? That's no different than a broken phone or dead battery. All of these situations are equally avoidable, some of them boil down to bad luck. Bad luck doesn't apply to technology exclusively. You could just as easily have a bag stolen with your card in it as you could drop your phone and break it.

Personally, I carry my card. And a color photocopy in another bag. I also have pictures of it on my phone and laptop. If anyone is dumb enough to plan a trip around diving, whether it's a weekend down the road, or a month around the globe, and they're not intelligent enough to prepare for the logistical contingencies of a lost card or a broken phone, I don't feel bad for them when they don't get to dive. Putting all of your eggs in one basket isn't a problem with technology. It's a problem with you (general "you," not targeting YOU, Allison)

 

[doctormike]

No.

I dove with my Jr. OW card for 30 years.

OK, so that's the answer! There is no need for that diver to pay for a regular AOW card if the Jr. card is equivalent. Good to know.

 

[tursiops]

Also, nobody I know of has ever been refused a dive with their RAID certificates.

LOL. And how many millions of divers do you know around the world? Just sayin'

 

[Sean Walberg]

No.

I dove with my Jr. OW card for 30 years.

The instructor that trained my son (13 at the time) and I told us he still used his Junior card and not to worry about getting a new card when my son turned 15.

 

[markmud]

I pose this question: What if a diver doesn't take his smart phone with him to the dive shop or doesn't even own a smart phone, what then? He can't prove his certification?

Hey M²,

I am the guy who is at the gate with 300 travelers wondering why I am holding up the line because my phone timed-out and now I have to log-in and find the boarding pass again. That crap happens to me all the time. I am the guy who travels somewhere and then finds out I have to pay $75 to get roaming privileges in that foreign country. I will keep my plastic c-cards and paper boarding passes, thanks.

Each diver hands his phone for the shop person to read their cert (assuming the phone is charged). The employee grabs it and the image disappears or he has to expand the image but taps the image and it disappears. So he hands it back to the customer who has to open the picture. Meanwhile, you've got eleven other customers to process. Call me old-fashioned but I like the plastic cards.

Hey EFX, that happens to me all the time!

If we estimate that a card is about 5g of plastic, thats around 4.5T of plastic every year. Might not seem like a lot, but we all see how much plastic makes it into the oceans.

Hi jbergler,

I don't see many c-cards in the ocean; well I have not seen any. Most of the plastic in the oceans comes from countries where citizens think that the ocean is a trash can. Most of my neighbors who brow-beat me about plastic and anthropogenic warming are the worst polluters. Their trash cans are full of plastic and trash every week; while my cans are ¾ empty. They drive big SUVs. Their carbon footprint is pretty big. Live it, don't preach it.

Sorry, but not everyone has or wants a smartphone. And saying that a smartphone is more environmentally friendly than a physical card exhibits a complete inability to grasp reality.

Hi Kharon,
The profundity exploded from those two short sentences!

As for me, I have never had a problem with my plastic card having a dead battery. I never had a problem when a dive shop wants to collect cards and hand them back on the boat, and I have never had a problem when a shop wants to make a photocopy of my plastic card.

Totally agree.

Hi OP,

I won't sign your petition either. As for PADI charging $45 for a replacement? It is steep, but I have so many of the darn things I really don't need to replace one or two, until I lose most of them. But I have not lost any.

Thanks, I did enjoy the thread,
m²v²

 

[MargaritaMike]

Personally, I carry my card. And a color photocopy in another bag. I also have pictures of it on my phone and laptop. If anyone is dumb enough to plan a trip around diving, whether it's a weekend down the road, or a month around the globe, and they're not intelligent enough to prepare for the logistical contingencies of a lost card or a broken phone, I don't feel bad for them when they don't get to dive. Putting all of your eggs in one basket isn't a problem with technology. It's a problem with you (general "you," not targeting YOU, Allison)

AMEN! I have the photo copies in my log books and suitcase. Since I have different levels of certification I have different cards in different places, with my DM card (the card of last resort) in my waterproof Save-A-Dive box, which goes to the dive site with me. Seems apropos. If I'm there some proof of certification is there with me.

Cheers - M²