Wreck diver killed by leaking computer - UK

[EireDiver606]

Roughly yes, and sadly his buddies were not there.
Hard to imagine the need to stay on the loop at all that early in a wreck dive with no delay, entanglements etc on the bottom. Just bail out.

The most reliable way - bail and GTFO

It doesn't mention anywhere if he had any bailout at all. If he didn't, it would explain why he didn't bail out...

Just to be clear, this is not a jab at BSAC divers.

These posts all ask the correct question: Bailout?

Sadly, many rebreather BSAC divers around UK do not carry nearly enough gas to safely bailout from deep dives. Believe it or not, I've heard and seen folks (some of them friends) doing 70m dives on an AP rebreather with something like 2 X (6L or 8L) tanks as bailout!!

Crazy.

 

[BlueTrin]

Just to be clear, this is not a jab at BSAC divers.

These posts all ask the correct question: Bailout?

Sadly, many rebreather BSAC divers around UK do not carry nearly enough gas to safely bailout from deep dives. Believe it or not, I've heard and seen folks (some of them friends) doing 70m dives on an AP rebreather with something like 2 X (6L or 8L) tanks as bailout!!

Crazy.

According to the Dive forums he was on deco at 6m

 

[rjack321]

I have a JJ too, and I'm not sure I understand the accident. I have a DiveCAN JJ, which means that if you cut off the controller with a set of trauma shears (like Leon did with a Meg), the system reverts to low setpoint.

But I'm also assuming that there was a HUD, which is the stock backup PO2 display on a JJ (I replaced mine with a NERD).

Yes, bailout is always an option, but I don't see why that would have been the go to plan in this case, at least as I understand it. Dead controller with an older unit that doesn't default to low setpoint? That means that the solenoid stops adding O2, and the PO2 will steadily drift down. But you have the HUD, which is giving you PO2, right? Day one in CCR class is always know your PO2, and in that case you would just fly manually. Why would you need to bail out if you still had PO2 information? Maybe I don't understand the actual situation...

Sorry to call you out here... But this exact mentality is killing people like this UK man.

THE DEFAULT is to bailout. #1 choice, just do it, don't di*k around. Stop thinking "I got this" like this man did.

Only is rare or unusual cases is there any need to try something else. SB and other forums like this are a terrible influence talking on and on about all the ways you can limp home on a broken CCR.

 

[Khrissi]

From ignorance of the tech-speak. He tangled in a net - then got to back up to 6m , then fell to the bottom ( 70m) i would say this IS Not down to equipment fail. Poor guy. CCRebreathers aint on my Christmas list. K

 

[broncobowsher]

This will get a lot more interesting once all the details come out and not the little bit of info mixed with a lot of speculation.

In general, modern rebreathers I can think of can handle a lost controller. There are usually redundant means of monitoring PPO2 (heads up displays) that are not tied into a controller. Proper training for that specific rebreather is needed. I don't have training on the JJ nor the variants of it. Need to revert those questions back to a qualified JJ instructor who knows the various configurations of the JJ. The loss of a handset/controller is a factor, but not the reason for what went wrong. There are multiple other failures that also happened but those have not been brought to light yet. Training, execution of the training for the failure encountered, configuration of the gear to handle the failed handset, and a huge list of other things that have not been answered yet.

For those who don't know rebreathers and tech diving, a gas that is completely acceptable to be diving at depth can leave you passed out due to lack of oxygen on the surface. As you ascend you need to add oxygen to what you breath, just to bring the percentage up. At depth a PPO2 you can survive very nicely on can be only 10%, even 5% or less oxygen (not recommended at those depths but you can survive on it). But you won't stay awake, thus stay alive, at the surface.

 

[doctormike]

Sorry to call you out here... But this exact mentality is killing people like this UK man.

THE DEFAULT is to bailout. #1 choice, just do it, don't di*k around. Stop thinking "I got this" like this man did.

Only is rare or unusual cases is there any need to try something else. SB and other forums like this are a terrible influence talking on and on about all the ways you can limp home on a broken CCR.

I respect your posts, you have a lot of experience. But I have to agree to disagree.

It's not "d*cking around" to use a backup PO2 display. Of course, if his can was flooded, that's a different story. But I stand by my statement if the only problem was loss of a controller.

Seriously, I know that in MOD 1, bailout is the answer to everything. But you know very well that lots of CCR training is EXACTLY about how to stay on the loop in a variety of situations. Bailing out has its own set of risks, including incurring more decompression obligation, possible flooding, and managing buoyancy on ascent.

Thumb the dive? Of course. But not sure why you think that a functional CCR with a functional PO2 monitoring system requires bailout.

And from the accident analysis point of view, the question is why PO2 wasn't maintained. Saying that it was because the controller failed doesn't even begin to answer that question.

 

[lermontov]

I respect your posts, you have a lot of experience. But I have to agree to disagree.

It's not "d*cking around" to use a backup PO2 display. Of course, if his can was flooded, that's a different story. But I stand by my statement if the only problem was loss of a controller.

Seriously, I know that in MOD 1, bailout is the answer to everything. But you know very well that lots of CCR training is EXACTLY about how to stay on the loop in a variety of situations. Bailing out has its own set of risks, including incurring more decompression obligation, possible flooding, and managing buoyancy on ascent.

Thumb the dive? Of course. But not sure why you think that a functional CCR with a functional PO2 monitoring system requires bailout.

And from the accident analysis point of view, the question is why PO2 wasn't maintained. Saying that it was because the controller failed doesn't even begin to answer that question.

lilewise im only a beginner but isnt the reason for having a back up po2 monitor to cover this scenario
if the loss of the controller stops the solenoid from firing then manual add should be sufficient as long as you have a po2 reading- as for reason for the death itself its a puzzle - maybe something as simple as inattention from being used to the controller doing it for you

 

[Dusty123]

For the eccr people how much time did you spend running it manual during training? I did my mod1 on a manual revo. I have a hybrid now mostly run the solenoid at depth but almost always run the low setpoint and manual when ascending or run it manual on reef drifts for practice.

 

[LandonL]

This isn't how CCRs work. The backup is purely a monitor with no capacity to actually run the solenoid or anything else.

1) This was an analog JJ.
2) People have been talking about having a backup controller that "takes over" which no CCR can do.

1.) I know.

2.) What you actually said was “This isn’t how CCRs work” and that having a backup controller is something “no CCR can do”. I was simply pointing out that some units, like the AP, do. It is one of the reasons I like the AP and use it as my primary unit after having owned/dived several others.

 

[doctormike]

lilewise im only a beginner but isnt the reason for having a back up po2 monitor to cover this scenario
if the loss of the controller stops the solenoid from firing then manual add should be sufficient as long as you have a po2 reading- as for reason for the death itself its a puzzle - maybe something as simple as inattention from being used to the controller doing it for you

Exactly. Watch that Meg video. Pretty cool.