NSS-CDS Effectiveness

[Superlyte27]

An interesting aside, I then logged in 20 more times just to prove a point.

Ahh, the good ole days.

 

[Superlyte27]

you and I agreed several years ago when this was brought up last. Since the CDS almost never mints new instructors because no one could be bothered with them the list hasn't changed...

Lol

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

An interesting aside, I then logged in 20 more times just to prove a point.

Ahh, the good ole days.

What do you mean?

 

[Superlyte27]

What do you mean?

It was back when I was an engineer for my internet provider. They kept banning by ip, so I changed ip. They tried to ban by MAC so I changed my MAC. They couldn’t keep me out. The Netdoc got involved, talked to me like an adult and I think I stayed out for like a 7 day ban. Pad was like the bully cop with too much power gone to his head, and I refused to let him push me around. Pete was nice to me, so I left quietly for the time he requested. Oh, by the way, I was banned for talking about an unsafe cave diver we were sure was going to get killed. This conversation took place IN pm’s

 

[NothingClever]

Is cave diving history from the 1960s to present day taught and tested as part of Intro to Cave?

 

[rddvet]

Y'all were taught these things, right?

You would hope so but I've found quite a few people who haven't been.

Do any of you think the CDS does a poor, dangerous job of training divers to dive in caves? @tbone1004 @rjack321 @rddvet @CptTightPants21 ?

I don't think the CDS does a poor or dangerous job of training cave divers because the CDS doesn't train them, instructors do. I don't like the 4 part system of training that the CDS and others have adopted. I think especially intro pushes people to speed up their training and break rules. I think the apprentice plus is not a good idea because it falls uner this heading. I think that there are agencies such as GUE that have oversight of their instructors and you can usually (not always) assume someone got excellent training from a GUE instructor. I think that the CDS has some excellent instructors that teach excellent classes. I think the CDS also has some very crappy instructors who got their instructor card because they are friends of IT's, but that happens in many organizations. I also think there are alot of antiquated, washed up instructors that put out horrible students and it's known and spoken of around cave country, but the CDS does nothing about it since they're legacy instructors with big names. I think the CDS could do a better job of oversight. I don't think telling someone to get a CDS card guarantees they'll get good instruction, I know of several excellent CDS instructors that I think everyone could benefit from training with. But to say it's the norm is far from accurate. My issue is the CDS boasted comnservation for many years. Now it's a training agency.

 

[Superlyte27]

Is cave diving history from the 1960s to present day taught and tested as part of Intro to Cave?

Depends on the instructor.

 

[Superlyte27]

You would hope so but I've found quite a few people who haven't been.



I don't think the CDS does a poor or dangerous job of training cave divers because the CDS doesn't train them, instructors do. I don't like the 4 part system of training that the CDS and others have adopted. I think especially intro pushes people to speed up their training and break rules. I think the apprentice plus is not a good idea because it falls uner this heading. I think that there are agencies such as GUE that have oversight of their instructors and you can usually (not always) assume someone got excellent training from a GUE instructor. I think that the CDS has some excellent instructors that teach excellent classes. I think the CDS also has some very crappy instructors who got their instructor card because they are friends of IT's, but that happens in many organizations. I also think there are alot of antiquated, washed up instructors that put out horrible students and it's known and spoken of around cave country, but the CDS does nothing about it since they're legacy instructors with big names. I think the CDS could do a better job of oversight. I don't think telling someone to get a CDS card guarantees they'll get good instruction, I know of several excellent CDS instructors that I think everyone could benefit from training with. But to say it's the norm is far from accurate. My issue is the CDS boasted comnservation for many years. Now it's a training agency.

I probably agree with 99% of this.

 

[karstdvr]

What I want to know (off-topic) is who puts those handprints and fin prints in the floor of the cave like at the bottom of the breakdown room on the Peanut line?

What I find funny is the mid to later 90's has always been considered the heydey for cave certifications, and we probably had more cave divers than now. Back then we the cornflakes at Ginnie, there was silt on the floor at OG, Peacock didn't have hand prints and fin marks in large conduit passage, the clay in LR didn't have deep gouges etc etc. Many people have pointed out that with the advent of the for profit agencies entering the sport, these problems have grown. No matter who it is,.the caves are suffering from lack of quality of cave divers. I remember the survey I did for a UWS article on cave conservation years ago, and the one common denominator was student's "cave conservation" lecture with entry level training was either nonexistent or barely enough to register for so many agencies. A basic problem is the average duration that people stay in cave diving is 3 years, so they really don't see the damage over time,but the "tourist" caves are really showing a lot of damage.

 

[kensuf]

Depends on when they certed, doesn't it? When I first started, cookies were kinda new and we used only arrows. Boy did I get jumped on when I asked "What you mean, drop cookie?" I've seen many instructors do their thing and very few of them seem to cover the same stuff, much less in the same way. In regards to thirds, I don't remember Sheck's Blueprint for survival mentioning "in low flow add more gas" at all. I didn't encounter that concept until full cave and I had already figured it out by then. Teaching evolves. Not all cavers know the latest "best practices"... not even instructors. It's one of the things that makes SB incredibly valuable to divers.

I was taught those things about the rule of thirds and gas management in 1994 by my cave instructor. It's nothing radically new.