12 boys lost in flooded Thai cave

[boulderjohn]

First, for non-cave divers reading this, a sump is an underwater cave passage connecting two areas that are above water.

I was surprised to learn that the temperature was so warm underground, is this cave part of a volcanic system or hot spring?

I was taught that the temperature in a cave is often about the same as the average annual temperature of the land above. The temperature of Mexican caves is a little higher than the temperature of the caves in the Bahamas, which is a little higher than the caves in Florida. It is not surprising to me that the caves in Thailand would be about that warm.

 

[boulderjohn]

In one of the articles, Edd Sorenson of Florida is quoted as saying that getting them out via diving would be an absolute last resort. I agree. I am a certified cave diver, and I would not look forward to such a dive. In the movie Sanctum, people who have never dived get a quick lesson and suddenly look like cave divers. That is probably the most absurd part of a completely absurd movie.

 

[kelemvor]

So what do people think about full face masks? The articles I've read was so it was less likely that they would lose their gear. (I am not a cave diver, or anything close...nor do I use a full face mask.) My understanding is when a full face mask floods, it is a lot to deal with, as it involves switching to a backup mask, and your octo. Is that really a better solution than a regular mask and regulator? Or is it highly likely to lose a mask or kick out a regulator in tight situations like this, but rare to have a full face mask come off or flood?

I'm surprised they're not considering helmets. I don't know anything about helmets so there must be some good reason they settled on FFM.

FFM's have a purge on the front just like a normal second stage. As long as it isn't broken you can clear it by pressing the purge (if you've got enough gas in your supply/tank). Also, they (at least some such as the one I own) are positive pressure systems. So if you mess up the seal such that air is leaking badly all you have to do is close the seal down some and the mask will refill with air. It can be as simple as mashing the mask closer to your face with one hand. Not that this is the "right" way to dive them but it will definitely work in a pinch. That positive pressure also has a big drawback though. You use a lot of air if there is even a small leak. There's a "bubble" on your face which if not managed correctly will leak air out. Terrified kid with no dive experience in close quarters...and I think I read they have 45 feet of submerged cave to get through.

Hopefully they're trying to use some kind of surface supply/hookah rather than tanks.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Drilling a shaft sounds more feasible than taking them out on scuba.

 

[Skittl1321]

In one of the articles, Edd Sorenson of Florida is quoted as saying that getting them out via diving would be an absolute last resort. I agree. I am a certified cave diver, and I would not look forward to such a dive. In the movie Sanctum, people who have never dived get a quick lesson and suddenly look like cave divers. That is probably the most absurd part of a completely absurd movie.

I would assume that non-swimmers would look more like divers luggage than like cave divers.

It is really unfortunate that pumping the sumps isn't working so they can walk out. It does seem that drilling them out is safer than diving them out. I hope they figure out something. What a horrible situation.

 

[kelemvor]

I saw on cnn that they were considering attaching the kids to litters and dragging them through the submerged section. I don't see reputable sources mentioning that, so who knows.

I wonder what the water is like in there. I am imagining it's no visibility mud/muck the whole way.

 

[Schwob]

I would assume that non-swimmers would look more like divers luggage than like cave divers.

So, might it be possible to drag some one out like luggage in their own weighted, pressurized, air oversupplied, close (tight) fitting "drag out saisage shaped pressure chamber (drysuit style with valve/s keeping interior just above water pressure with some designed in controlled leakage to allow air exchange a way of adding /removing weights as needed), sort of locked in there with no chance to screw up (except for equipment or support team failure)...
....
I know how this sounds, but if you (as in you cave divers out there) think about it and refrain from thinking "body bag", could that sort of thing not be an option? Where on the scale from feasible to completely dumb and non realistic thought would you put this?

 

[glassbottom]

So i came across this site which seemed to have a bit of good information and some detailed maps of the cave itself.

Chiang Mai CityNews - LIVE Updates: Teenager Football Team Trapped in Thai Cave


They also seem to be posting regular update here. This map seems to be the most useful for my little old pea brain to comprehend.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/wp...27_1729236937129876_2457096703518441472_n.jpg

 

[npole]

But it shouldn't be "whatever the risks".

It is, coincidentally it's always like that: you always accept the less risky situation, whatever the risks, when the alternative is worse than those risks. To make it clear: whenever the rescuers are indeed risking their life, the people trapped there have zero experience, and their risks are exponentially higher than the rescuers.

So what do people think about full face masks? The articles I've read was so it was less likely that they would lose their gear. (I am not a cave diver, or anything close...nor do I use a full face mask.) My understanding is when a full face mask floods, it is a lot to deal with, as it involves switching to a backup mask, and your octo. Is that really a better solution than a regular mask and regulator? Or is it highly likely to lose a mask or kick out a regulator in tight situations like this, but rare to have a full face mask come off or flood?

You won't dive with a full face mask in a cave for a many reasons (if not for environmental reasons, like contaminated water and such), in a rescue situation you normally use a helmet, but the passages could prevent it, so a full face mask could be the less risky option since a regulator used by someone with no scuba diving experience easily prone to panic could end in a disaster. A full face mask can flood too (you purge it) and it's more "noob" friendly. They talked about "special masks", unless with "special" they just mean "full face" instead of traditional mask.

 

[admikar]

I sure hope everything works out. One question though....WTH were they doing beyond "no tank possible" point?