13 year old and Padi JOW cert

[offroadr1]

to me an internet forum is about the most casual conversation in existance. if i dont feel like typing formally then i wont. if you feel like you should judge me based upon what my typing skills are portrayed as, then by all means go ahead.

 

[Quero]

to me an internet forum is about the most casual conversation in existance. if i dont feel like typing formally then i wont. if you feel like you should judge me based upon what my typing skills are portrayed as, then by all means go ahead.

It's not actually a question of formality or typing skills--it's a question of respect. When a writer can't be bothered to spend the time to compose his thoughts carefully in order to make the communication with the reader as clear as possible and just throws any old thoughts down as they come to mind, with many words misspelled, and with poor punctuation, it makes the reader work much, much harder to puzzle out what the message is meant to be. That's plainly disrespectful; it has nothing to do with typing skills and even less to do with the formality of the situation.

 

[boulderjohn]

to me an internet forum is about the most casual conversation in existance. if i dont feel like typing formally then i wont. if you feel like you should judge me based upon what my typing skills are portrayed as, then by all means go ahead.

The choice is yours, not theirs.

All humans are constantly making decisions about the other humans we encounter in life. We look for clues that will help us understand how to react to them. At the most primal level, those clues tell us whether the person approaching us will try to kill us or act in friendship. When we are in discussion about serious topics, we use clues to judge the intellectual qualities of the participants. Greek rhetoricians referred to the process by which the speaker established credibility as ethos. The positions taken by someone who presents ethos poorly will be taken lightly.

You have chosen to present yourself as uneducated and illiterate, knowing that this is how you will be perceived, knowing how it will affect the weight given your positions. Those are your choices. Yes, people will judge you accordingly, but that is a natural reaction to the choices you made.

 

[archiebald]

to me an internet forum is about the most casual conversation in existance. if i dont feel like typing formally then i wont. if you feel like you should judge me based upon what my typing skills are portrayed as, then by all means go ahead.

Fair enough, I have judged that I have no interest in trying to read incoherent and painful grammar, hence you are now on my ignore list.

This is really relevant to the discsussion of the PADI training materials. Clear and concise is one thing, but unnecessary further dumbing down of the English language should be stamped out.

Instead, children should be encouraged to stretch their vocabulary and their reading and writing skills. The current PADI materials are just about perfect for this.

 

[Frosty]

Just a heads up for anybody thats interested. The boy concerned has passed every actual knowledge review so far (hes up to chapter 6) with no "translation" from me. Just chapter 6 and the BIG test to go. He did take awhile to get his head around RAT --more the actual part than the maths.
Actually he's a worry -He kept using the maximum allowed dive time rather than the planned. His excuse was--"but I wanna stay down till I have to come up".

---------- Post Merged on September 14th, 2012 at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous Post was on September 13th, 2012 at 08:57 PM ----------

Fair enough, I have judged that I have no interest in trying to read incoherent and painful grammar, hence you are now on my ignore list.This is really relevant to the discsussion of the PADI training materials. Clear and concise is one thing, but unnecessary further dumbing down of the English language should be stamped out.Instead, children should be encouraged to stretch their vocabulary and their reading and writing skills. The current PADI materials are just about perfect for this.

Actually you know what? a week ago I would have totally disagreed with you.As far as I'm aware Padi are not and will not ever be an institution in place to improve a persons english skills.
Its there to teach understanding of the principles involved in diving.Therefore if a big long complicated word can LEGITIMATELY be replaced with one that is in more common use I say go for it. Provided the exact message is not diluted.
Keeping in mind I'm not for a moment talking advanced diving.
BUT go figure my lad proved like every kid does when given a chance. Explain the word,explain the concept and they will understand. So darn it maybee padi Isn't intended to improve a kids vocab but it goes right ahead and does it as a side affect of learning the concepts.

 

[archiebald]

Actually you know what? a week ago I would have totally disagreed with you.As far as I'm aware Padi are not and will not ever be an institution in place to improve a persons english skills.
Its there to teach understanding of the principles involved in diving.Therefore if a big long complicated word can LEGITIMATELY be replaced with one that is in more common use I say go for it. Provided the exact message is not diluted.
Keeping in mind I'm not for a moment talking advanced diving.
BUT go figure my lad proved like every kid does when given a chance. Explain the word,explain the concept and they will understand. So darn it maybee padi Isn't intended to improve a kids vocab but it goes right ahead and does it as a side affect of learning the concepts.

I rest my case. And that is why I have a much higher positive attitude to PADI than certain old crusty members of this forum.

 

[Frosty]

I rest my case. And that is why I have a much higher positive attitude to PADI than certain old crusty members of this forum.

Before I do the post propper--This is purely for discussion,Im not having an arguement with ya.
I have no issue with Padi training but when there are two or more options/choices as to what word to use why not use the simplest and therefore least ambiguous?
The way I see it it should be like school. Initially its simple concepts but as you progress so the concepts and terminology get more complex building on what you learned initially.
Keeping in mind what is the ultimate goal? IMO the goal is to create as many safe divers as possible.
Ok I'll rephrase. Would you rather have a dive buddy at 20m with perfect grammar or one who has a clear understanding of what is needed in an emergency?

 

[Quero]

...when there are two or more options/choices as to what word to use why not use the simplest and therefore least ambiguous?
The way I see it it should be like school. Initially its simple concepts but as you progress so the concepts and terminology get more complex building on what you learned initially.

Generally speaking, the proper terminology for a concept is the more precise and "correct" way to refer to it for purposes of communication with other people on the same topic. For example, we could change the word"regulator" as we use it in scuba for "breathing equipment" to make it easier for people whose vocabulary doesn't include that word (kids, non-native speakers, people like me with no background in mechanics) but it's important for divers to know the terminology so that communication with other divers is clear. To take the earlier example of the word "residual" which was paraphrased as "left over" or "penalty" in order to make the concept clear, this works great as a teaching strategy, but for the learner, it's still important to also learn the correct terminology so that when RNT is brought up, the "r" for "residual" makes sense. RNT is a term with specific application to scuba diving and being able to understand the term when it comes up makes for clear communication. "Penalty time" might work for people who do sports in English, but it won't make sense to everybody. Precise terminology makes communication clear.

Ok I'll rephrase. Would you rather have a dive buddy at 20m with perfect grammar or one who has a clear understanding of what is needed in an emergency?

It's not an "either/or" thing. People can BOTH know the correct terms in order to communicate clearly AND understand the concepts behind the terms.

 

[archiebald]

Before I do the post propper--This is purely for discussion,Im not having an arguement with ya.
I have no issue with Padi training but when there are two or more options/choices as to what word to use why not use the simplest and therefore least ambiguous?
The way I see it it should be like school. Initially its simple concepts but as you progress so the concepts and terminology get more complex building on what you learned initially.
Keeping in mind what is the ultimate goal? IMO the goal is to create as many safe divers as possible.
Ok I'll rephrase. Would you rather have a dive buddy at 20m with perfect grammar or one who has a clear understanding of what is needed in an emergency?

kazbanz, My reply is 99% identical to Quero's response

Generally speaking, the correct terminology for a concept is the more precise and "correct" way to refer to it for purposes of communication with other people on the same topic. For example, we could change the word"regulator" as we use it in scuba for "breathing equipment" to make it easier for people whose vocabulary doesn't include that word (kids, non-native speakers, people like me with no background in mechanics) but it's important for divers to know the terminology so that communication with other divers is clear. To take the earlier example of the word "residual" which was paraphrased as "left over" or "penalty" in order to make the concept clear, this works great as a teaching strategy, but for the learner, it's still important to also learn the correct terminology so that when RNT is brought up, the "r" for "residual" makes sense. RNT is a term with specific application to scuba diving and being able to understand the term when it comes up makes for clear communication. "Penalty time" might work for people who do sports in English, but it won't make sense to everybody. Precise terminology makes communication clear.

It's not an "either/or" thing. People can BOTH know the correct terms in order to communicate clearly AND understand the concepts behind the terms.

In the industry I work in, we have many technical part names for machinery and many international customers. When our customer orders a spare part and uses different terminology, it creates confusion and we end up having to waste time by asking for re-confirmation. If they use the correct terminolgy, even though it is not their native language, then they get quick service.

---------- Post Merged at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:50 AM ----------

You have chosen to present yourself as uneducated and illiterate, knowing that this is how you will be perceived, knowing how it will affect the weight given your positions. Those are your choices. Yes, people will judge you accordingly, but that is a natural reaction to the choices you made.

Just like to congratulate you on this. You managed to make a good point without actually insulting offroadr1 it would seem.

I would not have been able to put it so eloquently and probably would have been moderated.

 

[Frosty]

ANYHOO- I have to say the lad flew through the final exam he scored 95% but he actually got all the correct answers. He thought in two questions it was multi choice.