20,000 logged dives

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Hmmm, i do have a friend who has about 20 000 dives or so.
He currently works on a liveaboard as a DM, is 45 years old i think. Does about 16 dives per week for the last 7 years. Times that by about 36 weeks of diving per year equals 576 dives per year which is 4032.
HOwever, before that he was a fish/specimen collector doing 6 or 7 dives per day every day, and i do mean everyday for years and years as he is a Philippino and unfortunately in his previous job, like many people in poorer countries, he was paid crap wages and worked his butt off every day to feed his family. Also paid per fish or per kilo depending on if it was aquarium trade=per fish, research=per kilo of nudibranch!
Do you have any idea of how many nudis of the same species it takes to make a kilo??
No real safety equipment, homemade wooden paddle fins, etc etc
Lets say he did that for 10 years, we'll give him a few days off here and there for the bends (3 or 4 times), family stuff, bad weather etc.
So,lets say 10x 340 days=3400x6 dives per day=20400
Add the 4000 dives on the liveaboard and you get
24432
Not bad eh?
 
Sorry, but you forgot the Shirley MacLaine effect ... need to multiply by the number of lives :eyebrow:

brucebowker:
Not trying to start a great debate here and I would suppose there might be a few who have logged that many dives but many claim they have and at first glance one might say "Wow, what a diver". But in doing some math things begin to look awry.

For sake of discussion let’s say the person is 55 years old. That would mean an average of 363.6 dives per year and that is from the day they were born. Let’s assume that this person did not dive the first 10 years, which is probably a very liberal estimate of when they did start. That would mean an average of 444.44 dives per year or about 1.2 per day. Each day after school for this person’s entire school life that had to make 1.2 dives.

Looking at a more realistic age of 15 when they started and that would be 500 dives per year or almost 1.4 dives per day and still going to school for a few more years. Miss just one day and that makes 2.8 the next day. Miss two days and one needs to do over 5 dives that day. Fly somewhere, be sick, visit DEMA for 3 or 4 days and the numbers start getting a bit out of reach.

There are people who claim they have over 10,000 dives on island X where they work full time and knowing that they have only been there 4 years, that means they are making 6.8 dives a day average and not missing one single day. Miss a day and they have to do over 13 dives the next day to make up those numbers.

There are divers who do 5 dives a day and that times 365 days is 1825 a year, if indeed they do 5 a day every single day. Even at that almost impossible rate it would take almost 11 years of not missing one single day to make 20,000 dives.

How realistic are these logged dives? Perhaps some people consider a dive of 10 minutes loggable (is that spelled correctly?)and if one stays down an hour that would be 6 dives????
 
Tom Smedley:
I musta missed something Bruce. Did someone claim to make that many dives? I have - in my dreams - but I don't think you can log those.

Tom - actually I had commented on this before to a magazine which had an article about someone who did X number of dives but I don't think it got printed. Today I thought I would do a Google search for "20,000 logged dives" and came up with a few who say they have!! Maybe they have maybe they have not. It makes good publicity though. People are impressed until, as I said, some math is done.

I forgot about that Wilt Chamberlain thing. Same basic idea but in that case - impossible.

Bruce Bowker
Bonaire
 
I know some people who dive more than 20,000 dives in their life. They are still diving in the ocean. Please check out the following article at NYT. I am sure you are impressed at their ordinary life. But, they never have any "I Syndrom."


===============================================================
February 15, 2005

[size=-1]UDO JOURNAL[/size]
South Korea's 'Sea Women' Trap Prey and Turn Tables

[size=-1]By NORIMITSU ONISHI [/size]

u.gif
DO, South Korea - On a cold, rainy morning, the sea women of this islet donned their black wetsuits, strapped on their goggles and swam out into the waves.

Over several hours, they dove to reach the sea bottom, holding their breath for about a minute before bobbing up to the surface. Sometimes, several dove in unison, their flippers jutting out together for a split second, looking like synchronized swimmers.

That illusion lasted until they resurfaced, one clutching an octopus, another a sea urchin, and until a closer look at the sunburned, leathery faces behind the goggles revealed women in their 50's, 60's and older.

The sea women here and on larger Cheju Island, off the southern coast of South Korea, are among the world's most skillful and toughest natural divers. Year round, they plumb the sea bottom with no scuba gear, in one- or two-minute dives that mix dexterity, desire and death.

"Every time I go in," said Yang Jung Sun, 75, "I feel as if I am going to the other side of the world. When I see something I could sell, I push myself in toward it.

"When I get out of breath, I push myself out of the water. It is all black in front of me. My lungs are throbbing. At that moment I feel I am dead. It happens every time. Every time. I tell myself I am not going to do that again. I always tell myself that. But greed makes me go back again."

Since the late 1970's, exports of sea products to Japan have made the sea women richer than they had ever imagined, allowing them to fix their houses, build new ones in Cheju City and send their daughters to college.

Some of the best divers, like Yang Hwa Soon, 67, not related to the older Ms. Yang, now make about $30,000 a year. Most dive 10 days each month but also work the fields. With tourism also popular here, many sea woman run restaurants and inns.

But their very success means that, within a decade or two, with the daughters choosing to work in the island's tourism industry or in the big cities, the 1,700-year history of Cheju's sea women will probably end. In 2003, 5,650 sea women were registered in Cheju, of whom 85 percent were over 50 years old. Only two were under 30.

"We are the end," Ms. Yang Jung Sun said, satisfaction spreading across her face. "I told my daughter not to do this. It's too difficult."

Men dived until the 19th century but found the job unprofitable because they, unlike women, had to pay heavy taxes, said Ko Chang Hoon, a professor at Cheju National University. So the women took over what was considered the lowest of jobs and became the main breadwinners.

This clashed with Korea's Confucian culture, in which women have traditionally been treated as inferior, leading administrators from Seoul to bar the women from diving, ostensibly because they exposed bare skin while at sea. "The central government forbade the women from diving, but the women just gave them some abalone to look away," said Professor Ko, whose mother and grandmother were sea women.

Not surprisingly, the sea women's power was greatest in villages that relied more on sea products than on farming. On Mara Island, where sea products accounted for almost all sources of revenue until tourism became popular in recent years, sex roles were entirely reversed.

In a study of Mara Island, Seo Kyung Lim, a professor at Cheju National University whose mother was a sea woman, found that men took care of the children, shopping and feeding the pigs. Women ruled their households and their community.

If their husbands cheated on them, Professor Seo said, "they could simply tell them to get out of the house."

On Cheju, market forces prevailed over the Confucian preference for boys. "If people had a boy, they didn't celebrate," Professor Ko said. "If it was a girl, they celebrated, because they knew that the girl would dive and bring money to the family."

On Udo, though farming traditionally made up a third of revenues, with sea products accounting for the rest, women's status was also high. "We always made more money than the men," Yang Jung Sun said. "They just made enough to feed themselves. We paid for fuel and education. Everything."

Perhaps realizing that men, including the head of a local fishing association, sat within earshot, Ms. Yang added, with a smile that bridged the gap between her words and the reality: "How can women have more power at home? There's only one captain in a house and that's clearly the father."

The girls begin going to sea at age 8 or 10, first picking up seaweed near the shore. The best divers can plunge 40 feet deep and hold their breath for over two minutes. (To avoid overfishing, scuba gear remains illegal.)

With a flat tool attached to one wrist, the sea women try to dislodge abalone from under rocks. Occasionally, though, the abalone clamp down on the tool and trap one of them underwater. At least one sea woman dies every year while diving.

With the number of sea women declining, and with tourism giving Cheju men more opportunities, it is unclear what will happen to their daughters' status in their communities and home. What is clear, though, is the pervasive sense that the end of something is near.

"When I wanted to go deeper, until last year I would push myself to go deeper," Yang Hwa Soon said. "Now I feel I'm aging. When I want to go deeper, instead of pushing myself, I usually decide not to go. I started feeling older last year, after I turned 65."
 
Bruce,

Thanks for the great math!!! And... as mentioned earlier... At times... it is human nature to exaggerate about certain things.

I am reminded of two sayings when someone starts claiming the moon, and expects me to swallow it...

1) There are divers who have logged 1,000 dives.... and then there are divers who have logged 1 dive... 1,000 times.

(**Meaning... Just because a Diver has logged 1,000 dives does not necessarily mean that they have learned anything more than that which they learned on thier first dive.)

2) The greatest divers in the world can be found on the internet... and down at the local bar having a stiff drink.

(I swear... the way some divers talk... they should be about 150 years old!)

Take care!

Donnie
 
IMO, your cumulative bottom time should be the factoid of interest, considering the variance in opinion as to how much time really constitutes a "dive." As a former commercial diver, I would separate my bottom time into many categories; such as surface air, surface gas, bell bounce & saturation ( "surface" meaning " surface-supplied" gas delivery ). I can look back at my career in many ways - by total immersion time / total "under pressure" time, type of job, type of gas mix(es) breathed etc. Thus the issue of "experience" is not as simple as a simple number.

Recreationally speaking, I'm much more interested in a diver's cumulative bottom time than I am in a total # of dives. Further, I am even more interested in the kinds of dives that contribute to that total # of hours. I like to see a good cross-section of experience. That tells me alot about the probable capability of the individual.

Then again, all this data means very little if a diver's attitude is poor. You can have all the #'s / hours / experiences in the world & still be a hazard if your attitude lacks.

Regards,
D.S.D.
 
very interesting the article on the women... thanks for sharing it!
 
Victor, the head dive master we used in St Lucia, was supposed to go into the Guiness Book for most dives/hours underwater. It was well over 20,000. He worked the gold dredges for many years, so I tend to believe him. He said many of his friends working the dredges died or were badly damaged by bends. There were few safety concerns given to them. Many DM's working on liveaboards can log up a huge number of dives, since they can add setting moorings etc.
 
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