3-Day Open Water Certification?

[Kairoos]

I'm quite surprised by this thread, I took a 3-day course and it seemed fine to me. Going through the PADI OW book and DVD I could not imagine spending weeks going through that. It's so basic and simple, I would be bored out of my mind and probably lose interest in scuba diving if I had to drag that out for weeks. When I finished my certification I went and dove with the instructor's charter, so when I did anything stupid, I had someone there to correct me. We still practiced some skills the first couple dives I did after being certified, and that was just going out on the charter as an OW certified diver. I still dive with them and he dives every single time we go out, as well as one or two dive masters in training. He's not afraid to tell me I'm doing something wrong, or I did something stupid, which is great. Maybe I just found a good instructor!

I will say that I've dove with newly certified people that are just clueless in the water - honestly it really depends on the person, how fast they learn, and how much they care to look into what they're doing. I research things, I practice skills in the pool, I spend time outside of the water learning on my own. Most people don't tend to do that. I'm into the reef (aquarium) keeping hobby and if I could be paid for the amount of time I've spent researching and learning, I could probably put a down payment on a new Mercedes! Consequently I've seen people in fish stores that wonder why their tank is full of hair algae and the anemones they keep buying die in a week, or why their tang has ich and is swimming frantically around their 20 gallon tank. Just completely oblivious and ignorant about what they're doing.

 

[flots am]

Maybe I just found a good instructor!

Maybe, but that doesn't have a lot to do with it.

It's all practice. If you cleared your mask a few times in class, you can demonstrate that you can clear your mask. If you cleared your mask 80 times (or hundreds if you were lucky enough to have a mask that didn't seal quite right), you can be pretty sure that if you ever need to do it in OW, it won't require a second thought. This seems trivial, but there are people with c-cards who start every dive with "I hope my mask doesn't leak".

Same thing with air-sharing, regulator recovery, emergency ascents and all the rest. You only need to be able to demonstrate it for the instructor to get your card, however you may need a much higher level of proficiency to do it a couple of months later with just a buddy (or no buddy).

When I finished my certification I went and dove with the instructor's charter, so when I did anything stupid, I had someone there to correct me.

That's pretty much the whole issue. If you're going to be diving with someone who can prevent you from doing something dangerous and assist you with performing normal skills, you can get by with much less practice, if you're willing to assume the risks that at some point you might not get help.

flots.

 

[Vegan Shark]

While I'm all for being as safe as possible, and agree scuba can be a risky sport, I feel like we on Scubaboard make it out to be way more dangerous than it is. In terms of death and injury rates, recreational diving is very safe compared to a lot of sports. Despite the thousands of 3 day programs going on yearly, injuries and deaths are super rare. 99.9% of people can learn the skills well enough to have fun and not die--not everyone is interested in having great buoyancy and trim, or having reactions to every emergency nailed down. Some people just want to enjoy a dive vacation, and a 3 day program is great for that. The OP didn't say he's going to go teach himself BASE jumping, or free solo climb on a whim, for Neptune's sake.

My friend here in Okinawa wants to get certified, and I recommended a 3 day program without hesitation. Basic scuba skills are pretty simple (mask clear, emergency ascent, etc) that someone can grasp them in a couple days. And with 80+ degree water, and 70'+ vis, I think most people are pretty safe.

 

[TSandM]

Vegan Shark, how much teaching have you done? Students really vary. Some are completely relaxed and confident from the beginning. I would agree that such students, although they would not by any means graduate with the skills I'd like to see any and every open water diver have, would be very unlikely to hurt themselves if they stuck to OW type dives.

But we have had some that have taken a LONG time to break the bolting impulse. Bolting to the surface when something minor goes wrong is one of the ways to get killed in this sport. Some people just CAN'T defuse that in a single day of pool work. You graduate such a student, and they are a time bomb. A flooded mask, or a regulator kicked out of the mouth, and off they go . . . and they may or may not survive it.

If you have no teaching experience, I think it's really hazardous to opine and generalize.

 

[Vegan Shark]

No teaching experience in scuba--although I work as an elementary school teacher. I know every student is different, and I'm sure there are people that need way more than 3 days. I'm just speaking to the opinion that 3 day courses are, in of themselves, unsatisfactory and dangerous. They clearly work for some people, is all I'm saying. There are millions of ill-experienced divers out there, and yet the scuba death rate is still insanely low (1 in 211,864 according to DAN). Divers are far more at risk just driving to the dive site than they are under the water.

Regarding bolting: isn't one of the aspects of recreational diving that, at any time, you can perform an emergency ascent if needed? Bolting due to a flooded mask is unnecessary and bad, but so long as people stay in rec limits and don't hold their breath, I don't see popping up being that dangerous. Especially since most vacation divers seem to be enjoying shallow coral reefs; if you bolt at 25ft because of a lost reg, you should be fine.

 

[AdivingBel]

If you have no teaching experience, I think it's really hazardous to opine and generalize.

I generally find your posts very inciteful, but in this case I strongly disagree. You don't have to be an instructor to have a valid opinion on this topic, IMO.

There are plenty of people on Scubaboard that go on and on about the dangers of diving, as is their right. It's good to hear some other opinions to balance them out, as is their right. Basic OW skills are not rocket science,IMO, and don't require "80 repetitions of mask clearing skills" to dive safely. There will always be a few that will bolt. Hopefully they will be apparent during the pool skills and will be held back for additional training until they are comfortable or choose to find a different sport, but all training programs don't have to made that remedial. A fully cognizant adult capable of understanding the risks of the sport should be able to complete their training in a reasonable amount of time and go about enjoying their new endevor (or not, their choice). They can also opt for more training based on the goals they set for themselves, again their choice. Nobody wants anyone to be hurt, but neither should everyone be "wrapped in bubblewrap." Folks viewing these entry level forums should be made aware of the risks, but they should also come to understand that the skills needed to enjoy the sport are very doable and the sport can be enjoyed safely. IMHO.

 

[AKaczay]

I think the people that think 3 days is too quick might have had trouble in their class. If you aren't comfortable in the water maybe it takes you longer to pass the class?

 

[flots am]

Basic OW skills are not rocket science,IMO, and don't require "80 repetitions of mask clearing skills" to dive safely.

For a new (or rusty) diver, it only takes a couple of annoyances to take them from "stressed" to "panic". A mask that leaks a little, a reg that gets water in it, maybe a lose tank or a broken fin strap. The possibilities are numerous.

The amount of skills practice determines whether the dive ends with someone complaining on the boat about the lost fin, or someone bolting for the surface and getting hurt or killed.

You're right. OW diving isn't "rocket science". There is a very limited skillset that's required. However those skills that are required are absolutely required to be performed easily and repeatably without much thought in order to remain safe. If the skills aren't ingrained well enough, it's completely possible to die.

One of the reasons that divers aren't washing up dead on the beaches is because most of the tropical tourist diving is done with a professional, who, if the diver is lucky, will render whatever assistance is needed.

flots.

 

[boulderjohn]

Regarding bolting: isn't one of the aspects of recreational diving that, at any time, you can perform an emergency ascent if needed? Bolting due to a flooded mask is unnecessary and bad, but so long as people stay in rec limits and don't hold their breath, I don't see popping up being that dangerous. Especially since most vacation divers seem to be enjoying shallow coral reefs; if you bolt at 25ft because of a lost reg, you should be fine.

We are having a disagreement over vocabulary. Yes, in recreational no stop diving, you can make an ascent to the surface at any time. This assumes, as you say, that you don't hold your breath. In other words, if you calmly remember your training and ascend using proper technique, you will be fine.

That is not the definition the rest of us are using for "bolting." As we are using the term, "bolting" refers to a panicked, mindless sprint to the surface that disregards training. In that case, there is a strong likelihood that the bolter will hold his or her breath.

A couple of years ago, PADI and DAN did a joint study on the causes of scuba fatalities. To no one's surprise, the most common cause is medical--heart attacks, etc. The number one training related cause is so far ahead of number two that it can be said with some accuracy that if you eliminate it, you eliminate training-related fatalities. That cause of death is a chain of events that goes like this: drowning preceded by an air embolism preceded by a panicked sprint to the surface, usually as a result of an OOA situation.

 

[Bob DBF]

I generally find your posts very inciteful, but in this case I strongly disagree. You don't have to be an instructor to have a valid opinion on this topic, IMO.

Anyone can have an opinion, anyone can have a valid opinion, just because one has an opinion does not mean it is valid.

Basic OW skills are not rocket science,IMO, and don't require "80 repetitions of mask clearing skills" to dive safely.

That may be true, however "80 correct repetitions of mask clearing skills" will insure that when it happens it will not be considered an issue. The more skills that are dealt with in this manner, the more likely the diver is able deal with problems calmly and have a good outcome. I know a number of certified non-divers, it was because they took a quick class, dove a bit and had some "minor issues" then panicked and bolted. They had enough sense to quit diving because they were not trained enough to be safe. They liked SCUBA diving but their training was not thorough enough to produce a good diver and now they won't dive.

It seems these folks show how safe diving is because they are certified but will never have a recorded accident.

Folks viewing these entry level forums should be made aware of the risks, but they should also come to understand that the skills needed to enjoy the sport are very doable and the sport can be enjoyed safely. IMHO.

The risk is that one will be at depth and find out one is not proficient enough from a 3 day class to deal with problems encountered, without the intervention of good luck.





Bob
----------------------------------------------

That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.