3mm Fullsuit time ... ScubPro/SubGear Definition vs. Waterproof W3

[-JD-]

With an upcoming late-December trip to Cozumel coming up, it is time for me to get a 3mm fullsuit. Back story as It will probably pre-answer some inevitable questions ...

I considered going with a LavaCore/SharkSkin/4th-Thermocline suit, but I will also likely be using it for summer days at the quarry, shallow, with some mucking about on the bottom. Occasionally, literally ON the bottom playing pivot for circular searches as a helper/buddy during S&R sessions. I did that last year in a shortie (actually a 5mm Henderson step-in jacket) and my knees were not at all happy. None of the hybrid thermal/skin suits seem like they would hold up to that, so a traditional full suit for now I guess.

Since I'm likely to be in this for the long term, I'm willing to go for a mid to upper range suit that has better durability, performance, and features I want. While I want good thermal performance, I'd also like something that is easy on and off where there might be 4-5 dives a day in the quarry with hot-sun during SIs.

Fit wise, I'm a bit tough. Mostly L/XL up top due to shoulders (I typically need a 42-44Reg jacket to fit my shoulders and be able to move) and Medium bottom -typically 34"w x 32"i pants. 5'-10", 185lbs generally reasonably lean, mildly muscled, except for the regrettably middle-aged middle ...

Not really a fan of the hyper stretchy suits as I seem to need to spend forever fighting with it to go on straight and smoothing out all of the wrinkles, and I'm concerned about the durability under repeated crush.

@ LDS, I've looked at the Fourth Element Proteus suits and don't like floating back panel - surely warm but a real PITA. Henderson/NeoSport and Akona there don't ring the bells for me either.


My top two contenders are the ScubPro/SubGear Definition vs. Waterproof W3. I like the ankle, wrist, and front neck zips for ease of don/doff and the ability to open them up for some thermal regulation in warmer water. Both have knee-pads and glide-skin type necks, supposedly good quality material with special thermal linings of one type or another. I have a SubGear Definition (Same as the SP except for graphics) here for my son that I found new for a steal at $125, so I have a hands-on sense of it, W3 only from online.

Notable info:

W3: A little thicker material & semi-dry type wrist and ankle seals - should be notably warmer. Flex-panels at the elbows, knees, and back. Seat anti skid, elbow pads and what looks like better quality knee pads. About $80 more than the Definition - not a big factor, but a buck is a buck ...
S.S.Video:
Definition: Has nifty dive-computer anchoring loops on the wrists - looks like it would be really effective. (I may consider sewing some sort of similar structure onto all of my suits)
S.S.Video:

Bottom line, TL-DR

Does anybody have first-hand experience with the current generation of these suits that can give me some feed back or, better yet, an AB comparison? The W3 has some good reports with a few hits against Waterproof's customer service in older threads, but I've found little about the Definition

Thanks!

 

[Fathom044]

I have the Scubapro and it is an excellent suit. I highly recommend it.

 

[mattia_v]

I really like my W3. The thing about the Waterproof is that it has fitted panels, and is not super stretchy. So if it fits you well it's great, if it doesn't, not so much. Try both on and pick the one that fits better.

 

[FezUSA]

Just bought the SP 3mm for both myself and my wife. Won't get to dive in it until early next year so can't comment on uw/ actual usage.

Trying them on top-side and checking them out - they seem very well made and fit well. I am similarly broad shouldered and working on whittling the middle down. I'm 5' 9" and currently down from 210 to 190 with the goal of 175. I'm a 42" chest and right now a 33.5" waist (from 35"). 42-44 jackets are better for me too. My existing pants are a mix of 35x30 (2 pairs) and 34x30 (most) so I'm a little shorter inseam. The 35's are way loose now, and the 34's need a belt which I've now moved a notch tighter and I'm 1/2 way to the next notch.

The M didn't stand a chance of zipping up the back but had nice length in the arms and legs. The large zipped up without pinching but is a little tight at the moment. However by the time I trim down a little more shouldn't be an issue. (I believe it will probably also loosen up a little after a number of dive trips).

Length of arms and legs still nice and will probably be perfect for you. Having wrist and ankle zippers is nice and makes putting on easier, as well as having a useful front neck zip (my wife does not like tight around her neck until moment of entry, so this is a great feature for her).

The extra straps at the wrists to thread computers/watches too is a nice touch, just make sure you don't use them as grab points when donning/doffing. Abrasion resistant areas at knees lines up nicely and having them on the shoulders is also a nice touch.

I like the diagonal zipper as it makes it very easy to use the left hand to retrieve the zipper leash before passing it over/behind head to right hand to pull up, and the angled direction make it a more natural progression = easier. It is missing a useful tab/ grab point at the bottom of the zipper. This is a feature I've noticed on my wife's Mares shortie and works well to hold on to while pulling the zipper up.

 

[-JD-]

Thanks for the feedback so far!

I have the Scubapro and it is an excellent suit. I highly recommend it.

Have you had it long? Any crush down or wear issues?

I really like my W3. The thing about the Waterproof is that it has fitted panels, and is not super stretchy. So if it fits you well it's great, if it doesn't, not so much. Try both on and pick the one that fits better.

I prefer not super stretchy. (I'm not a latex-fetish type guy) But that does make fitting even more important. My Henderson Gold Core 7mm XL fits me great everywhere except the middle where it would actually encourage continued gluttony.
I may have to travel to NYC in order to be able to try both in the requisite spread of sizes.

Just bought the SP 3mm for both myself and my wife. Won't get to dive in it until early next year so can't comment on uw/ actual usage.

Trying them on top-side and checking them out - they seem very well made and fit well. I am similarly broad shouldered and working on whittling the middle down. I'm 5' 9" and currently down from 210 to 190 with the goal of 175. I'm a 42" chest and right now a 33.5" waist (from 35"). 42-44 jackets are better for me too. My existing pants are a mix of 35x30 (2 pairs) and 34x30 (most) so I'm a little shorter inseam. The 35's are way loose now, and the 34's need a belt which I've now moved a notch tighter and I'm 1/2 way to the next notch.

The M didn't stand a chance of zipping up the back but had nice length in the arms and legs. The large zipped up without pinching but is a little tight at the moment. However by the time I trim down a little more shouldn't be an issue. (I believe it will probably also loosen up a little after a number of dive trips).

Length of arms and legs still nice and will probably be perfect for you. Having wrist and ankle zippers is nice and makes putting on easier, as well as having a useful front neck zip (my wife does not like tight around her neck until moment of entry, so this is a great feature for her).
-snip-

My son's is the Medium (he really should be in a small ATM, but is doing the growth spurt thing now) and while I could get it on my lower half (legs and but snug, but not uncomfortable), I could not get my arms into it - just too slim-cut. And I'm not rocking massive guns or anything ... Didn't even consider trying to zip it.

From the SP size chart the L or XLS should be the right one. I do want to have enough room in the torso for the Lavacore Vest that I just picked up for slightly colder night dives.

 

[FezUSA]

Thanks for the feedback so far!

From the SP size chart the L or XLS should be the right one. I do want to have enough room in the torso for the Lavacore Vest that I just picked up for slightly colder night dives.

If the LS was to be found, I would have ordered that however I could only find the L. I'm happy with the fit though. Have you found the XLS anywhere?

And I agree, trying it on before buying is nice. Out here in rural Ohio makes it a little more challenging, but the vendor I used has no problem swapping out models/sizes and at no cost for shipping and rtn shipping. When we lived outside of Philly on the Jersey side (next town over from Glassboro St college/ Rowan) going up to NYC wasn't too bad as long as you were prepared to make a day of it!!

 

[-JD-]

If the LS was to be found, I would have ordered that however I could only find the L. I'm happy with the fit though. Have you found the XLS anywhere?

And I agree, trying it on before buying is nice. Out here in rural Ohio makes it a little more challenging, but the vendor I used has no problem swapping out models/sizes and at no cost for shipping and rtn shipping. When we lived outside of Philly on the Jersey side (next town over from Glassboro St college/ Rowan) going up to NYC wasn't too bad as long as you were prepared to make a day of it!!

From Ohio, you can drive to Chicagoland and visiting DRIS now. My Wife is from the Elmer area and we are still down that way a couple times a year for family events. Drove through your old area many a time.


I found a local shop that sells WP and went over after lunch. No W3s - nothing but 7mm WPs.

They did have the Definition, though, in an XL so I tried it on. I still struggled to get my arms in and had to have help getting it zipped. Arms and legs a little, but tolerably long. Shoulders notably too tight. I think SP suit sizing is based on marathoner body types ... That would mean I'd need a 2XLS which is definitively special order ... and ridiculous for someone who routinely wears size L shirts and jackets.

They had a Henderson Thermaxx 3mm (top of the line stock suit) in XL that I tried on and it fit very well. Nicely stretchy, but It still slid-on nice and easy. The problem is that it has a thick, semi-rigid spine pad under the zipper that I found horribly uncomfortable and it tended to shove the zipper up against the back of my neck. I can't imagine what it would be like kitted up with BC and tank!

Without the pad, the Thermaxx would be a nice Caribbean summer suit, but it was nowhere near as thick or warm as the Definition. I was instantly hot & sweating in the Definition. I could have hung out warm, but comfortably in the Thermaxx for quite a while.

With the Definition, unfortunately, out of the running I decided that driving 2 hrs. to NYC to try a L vs. an XL W3 was ridiculous when the same outfit (LP) will do free shipping and returns. NYC will be there another day ...

If W3 runs true to charts, a Large should work for me, and WPs listed sizes imply that they are larger than SP for a nominal size. Also I am Top of large/Bottom of XL height wise for WP so either should work there. So I ordered a L and an XL W3 and should see them early next week - Hopefully only one will have to go back ...

 

[Fathom044]

I have had no issues with the suit. No crush down. No wear. It wears well and I love the zipper on the front of the collar. I actually recommended the suit to a friend and he is satisfied with his as well.

 

[-JD-]

I have had no issues with the suit. No crush down. No wear. It wears well and I love the zipper on the front of the collar. I actually recommended the suit to a friend and he is satisfied with his as well.

Great! Thanks!
That bodes real well for my son's suit.

I was amazed how warm it was in my trial fitting - I'm guessing the IR liner is more than hype. I wish the cut worked better with my body geometry.

 

[runsongas]

the pinnacle 3mm is a winner on value for money imo