Accepting Responsibility for Your Own Safety

[Bombay High]

Matt, part of your responsibility as a certified diver is to only do dives you are certain are within the levels of your competency. I do not think you should do dives that place you beyond your ability to look after yourself. You have had a near miss, and you will keep having them, and one day it may not be a miss, if you do not focus on improving your ability as a diver.

Unfortunately, the only way to do this is to keep diving, and increasing the complexity and challenge of your dives in a slow, incremental manner.

I work in the offshore subsea business. I dive for a living, but when I switch to SCUBA, it is a whole different set of skills and muscle memory involved.

If I haven't SCUBA dived in a few months, I will take it easy for a few dives until it comes back, regardless of the fact that I was 800 ft deep 4 days ago.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

The difference? Absolutely massive, but that's going off topic. My point that was if diving in conditions that are unfamiliar to you - whether cold, low vis, high current, drift, whatever - that I can see the sense in hiring a DM to accompany you while you gain experience in that unfamiliar environment. I did my OW in high vis, warm, zero current environments. Technically that allows me to go anywhere in the world and jump in and complete a dive. But if i'd dropped off the back of a boat to 30m in 1m (3ft) vis, high current, cold conditions, it's highly likely that I would have paniced and maybe ended up dead. In that case, people would have critisized my decision not to hire a DM. So how can we have a go at someone who readily admits they hire a DM to increase their comfort level?

I then go on to rebut that same position, but you didn't quote that bit

Was trying to cut down on space, but even though I haven't been diving in the cold ocean, I have been in warm flat, surges, waves, low vis, cold quarries, and the low vis cold quarry is the only place there wasn't a dive guide. My training was done in 4ft swells when we started and were about 8ft when we finished, I have never done an ocean dive without a dive guide, but my reason is that I travel alone, so to be assured I'll get to dive I chose boats with guides. But when in the water I don't think of them as being there to watch over me, it's me and my buddy. I've been on dives where me and my buddy just kept the dive guide in site. I let them know when I'm low on air and going to do my safety stop, not if I should do it. I don't think any one is criticizing anyone for hiring a DM, it's the reasoning for hiring one that everyone is criticizing. Using your example, if something did happen to you on that dive, the first thing people would be asking is where was your BUDDY not why didn't he hire a DM. You have to remember a DM is someone with 50 or more dives that has a certification, that doesn't mean he's a good diver, and it doesn't me he won't panic either.

 

[Lemna]

Yes. It's like when you first get a driver's license. There's a period of time when you have a training license, and aren't supposed to drive without an experienced driving in the car with you.

The moment you get your driver's license, you can drive on your own. That is what happens when you get your OW card.

I don't think anybody who has only done OW is qualified to dive without a DM. Not me, and not anybody else either. And SB members are welcome to tell me I'm incompetent, or dumb, or didn't pay attention in class, etc. But I disagree. Nobody fresh out of driver's ed is qualified to drive with only another fresh driver, and nobody fresh out of OW is qualified to dive only with another new OW graduate buddy.

Sure they are, in similar or easier circumstances than they were taught to dive. Every weekend I see lots of people fresh out of the open water course diving together in the local lake where they got certified. They do just fine, gradually gain experience and confidence, and most importantly, find buddies they can trust.

And even if I said that everybody who graduates OW is qualified to dive only with a buddy, then I would still say that it's safer to do so with a DM. Does this mean I'm not accepting responsibility for my own safety? I don't think so. In fact, it means I'm accepting more responsibility for my own safety than someone who thinks that, because he's finished OW, he doesn't need a DM.

It can be safer to dive with a more experienced buddy, but it's also awfully easy to become completely dependent on them. That will hold you back in your diving. Next time you are diving with somebody more experienced, offer to lead the dive. The first time you'll spend a lot of energy doing that, but it will quickly make you a better diver.

Lots of things could happen where a DM would be good to have around, it seems to me. Especially for a newby like me. Does this mean I shouldn't be diving? No. It just means that somebody with my experience is safer with a DM watching out for him.

Many divemasters start the DM course at 40 dives and graduate with 60. That's not much more experience than you have... You have the same abilities to look out for yourself and your buddy as they do - you only haven't realized that yet. Try my suggestion: offer to lead a more experienced buddy around a local site. You will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Zieg]

So I thought I'd start a new thread about this whole issue.

And the point I'd like to make is that this discussion is pretty silly.

I think that says it all.

 

[Hawkwood]

...When I returned from Cozumel yesterday and told my wife about the swim-throughs and diving the walls, she asked, "Did you have a DM with you?" I replied, "Yes." She said, "Good."...

This is not a criticism, but a question:

How is the DM "leading" eight divers, assuming the eight max in Cozumel, through a swim-through going to help (or even know there is a problem) the last diver in line?

For that matter, how can the DM help anyone behind him/her?

 

[Nosnhoj]

Okay, so what are you saying, I shouldn't be diving? I should go back and take Open Water and Advanced Open Water and Rescue and Nitrox all over again?

Isn't DM the next 'offered' certification in the progression? Go for it! Then by your own standards - you will be qualified to look out for yourself; and your buddy can provide the 'just in case' as necessary.

Ok, I jest...

Bottom line is you do what you need to do for a safe dive

(Just keep your rescue diver cert in your wallet when signing up...)

I jest again.

Point made.

 

[arthurmnev]

What's the difference between diving in warm tropical waters with good vis as opposed to dive in cold water with low vis?

One of the major differences is ability to navigate successfully. In my mind, safety comes in two flavors:
1) DCS type of safety -- that would be you monitoring your depth, air, NDL if applicable etc...
2) Ability to get back to the boat, and especially so if drift diving.

I expect ALL certified divers to take care of their own DCS related safety, I expect my buddy to make a judgement call to end the dive if he/she is uncomfortable (I subscribe to a philosophy where any diver can end a dive at any time for any reason) -- if my buddy ends the dive, I go up regardless of what I'd like to do and will not question it; I expect the same in return.

I ping my buddy on regular basis for AIR / NDL information ONLY so I can understand what the schedule looks like (yes, dive plans don't always work out well in real life if someone is having a bad day and is worse with air, computers differ in their safety margin and tank pressures do vary upfront). I will never interfere with his / her call to continue unless I'm in direct conflict with that decision... if my buddy thinks that he / she has enough air for NDL/Deco plan we dive I will not question it. By an extension, if a DM is telling me and my buddy to start ascend at 1000 PSI while next to the boat without good reason (e.g. the dive is over for some reason), I will follow, but that will be the last time I went diving with that DM.


The second safety element is a bit different -- getting back to the boat (and not being stuck on the surface waiting for a search party) is a major element, and while I expect ALL certified divers to take care of their DCS safety, navigation is tricky. Personally, I prefer a guide with me so I can devote attention to what is around me rather than checking my bearing, tracking the bottom and current. Can I do that -- yes, can I go down without a DM / Guide -- absolutely, am I more comfortable going down with a person that knows the site and environmental situation -- absolutely.

 

[Scott]

At Cozumel this week my DM suggested I add air to or subtract air from my BC a couple of times when I was finning a lot to maintain my buoyancy. That advice was well taken.

Sounds like a lack of diver awareness. Where you are in the water column is something every diver should have learned early in their OW pool sessions and for certain by the end of their first OW dive.

He also helped me locate my buddy when I forgot to keep track of where he was and misplaced him a couple of times.

Lack of diver awareness on both parties part. Did you loose your buddy or did your buddy loose you?

At one point along a wall I inadvertently descended from 80 to 97 feet rather quickly, and my buddy (not the DM) swam down and grabbed me before I had descended further. I knew I was at 97 feet, and I was watching my computer. But it probably wasn't a good idea to be down there when the rest of the group was at 80.

Thank goodness your buddy wasn't narc'd (speculation) like you.
Probably is not the word I would use in regards to being at that depth alone , "definatley not" would work. While you were watching your guage I suspect you were not aware.

At no time did I feel in any danger, and at no time did I feel that the DM was really necessary for my safety. But I don't think that it's a bad idea to have the DM there just in case.

So you had a buddy, yet you still wanted to put your safety in the hands of a DM? Was your buddy not capable of being a good buddy?

And when I say I'm not qualified to guarantee my own safety, I mean that I might easily have made a mistake. Losing track of my buddy was a mistake that could prove fatal, though perhaps not when you're swimming in a group. Fatal for my buddy perhaps. That's not good. And I shouldn't have done it. But I did. What if a down-current had caught me on the wall and taken me down to 120 feet? Lots of things could happen where a DM would be good to have around, it seems to me. Especially for a newby like me. Does this mean I shouldn't be diving? No. It just means that somebody with my experience is safer with a DM watching out for him.

I'm sure the operator was very aware of the conditions and any threats of down currents. That is why in the briefing they say "stay above X feet", "we'll ascend regardless of pressure if we reach the end of the reef', "don't go here or there"

Sounds like you just need to be more aware of what you are doing and what is going on around you.

 

[levi]

At one point along a wall I inadvertently descended from 80 to 97 feet rather quickly, and my buddy (not the DM) swam down and grabbed me before I had descended further. I knew I was at 97 feet, and I was watching my computer. But it probably wasn't a good idea to be down there when the rest of the group was at 80. At no time did I feel in any danger, and at no time did I feel that the DM was really necessary for my safety. But I don't think that it's a bad idea to have the DM there just in case. And when I say I'm not qualified to guarantee my own safety, I mean that I might easily have made a mistake. Losing track of my buddy was a mistake that could prove fatal, though perhaps not when you're swimming in a group. Fatal for my buddy perhaps. That's not good. And I shouldn't have done it. But I did. What if a down-current had caught me on the wall and taken me down to 120 feet? Lots of things could happen where a DM would be good to have around, it seems to me. Especially for a newby like me. Does this mean I shouldn't be diving? No. It just means that somebody with my experience is safer with a DM watching out for him.

Ok, i was a bit sympathetic of your position up until this. Now I am not sure. I now think it is possible you do not appreciate how dangerous diving can be in general, or possibly, that you are just not willing to take the necessary responsibility for yourself.

A) if you are on an 80 foot dive and all of a sudden find yourself at 97 and descending, and did nothing to correct the action or not think you it was a bad idea, then I am not sure what to think.

B) you say that your lack of attention to your buddy was probably more detrimental to him/her then it was to yourself. 1. this shows that you do not have much concern for your buddy, and more importantly 2. what do you think happens when you have a possibly fatal incident underwater. i.e. all of a sudden you suck on your regulator and 'nothing' happens? do you think your buddy bolts over and offers his regulator to you? No, you need to get to your buddy and start sucking on his air or that scenario may end very badly for you. Being you do not appreciate the actual dynamic, or importance, of a buddy team has me concerned. You should, of course, be aware of your buddy at all times, this is being a 'good' buddy; this way he knows where you are at all times also.

Basically, i don't know what to think anymore about this thread. the only thing i am positive about is that as a rescue diver, you should not be referring to yourself as a 'newby'. and if you are, i think there is something definitely missing from your previous training.

added in edit:

Also, your opinion of having a DM around just to risk his/her life to keep you from doing something irresposible, i.e. your uncontrolled decent situation. is an unacceptable position.

 

[Zieg]

Did the OP change his name in the middle of this post?