Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

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I have not been in Vortex for a number of years, so I may not remember it correctly, The restriction that this diver may be past, is it the fairly wide one that is only about 16 inches high? Also, are scrapes in the clay the only indication that he is past this very tight restriction? If it is the restriction I am thinking about, I am amazed anyone was able to squeeze through it. Condolences to family and friends, and best regards to IUCRR team members.
 
I have not been in Vortex for a number of years, so I may not remember it correctly, The restriction that this diver may be past, is it the fairly wide one that is only about 16 inches high? Also, are scrapes in the clay the only indication that he is past this very tight restriction? If it is the restriction I am thinking about, I am amazed anyone was able to squeeze through it. Condolences to family and friends, and best regards to IUCRR team members.

16 inches is not really a SM restriction. The stuff you are rrading about is half that size and smaller.
 
I do know that he posted his dive profile for the Vortex dive online. He posted as a Monday dive. I do not know if he postponed it to Wednesday or did it twice. I do know from the profile it was a hardcore dive for someone not properly trained. 8 bottles total, a 232 min. dive to 140 some odd feet.

Pattidives, Can you post where his profile is at? I'd love to take a look at it. The detials you give above is really extreme for someone with his level of training and would require some very advanced calculations for gas switching and deco, something that I think from reading he may not have had. It makes me wonder if he had outside help with his dive plan, as the average AOW diver doesn't know how to form a gas mangement profile for this type of diving.
 
This may seem like a stupid question...but bear in mind I am not a cave diver...not cave certified or anything like that so I have no point of reference.....but is there any likelihood that over time with the flow of water that the body may naturally find its way back to another area of the cave closer to the opening.....or is this likely his final resting place?
 
*sigh*

I don't post here on SB very much anymore. But those who know me, or have been in the water with me will hopefully understand what I am about to say.

After about 75-100 cave dives, I stepped away from it a few years ago. Some speculated it was because of the loss of my friend and former dive buddy at Jackson Blue. Some thought I had just lost interest, or that I got scared from a frightening experience I had in local cave. But really none of that was true.

The sad and true reason I stepped away from the sport was something mentioned a while back in this tread. It was the attitudes surrounding the sport. The attitudes by non-divers, by OW divers, and most often by certified cave divers.

The attitude that unless you push farther, deeper, and longer you are somehow "less qualified" or less of a "caver". The utter dismissal of the concept that someone may only be interested in doing shorter, less complex cave dives, even if they want a full certification card. The concept that the "goal" of diving a cave is not to reach the end of the line necessarily, or push new cave, or add to a map.

As much as we might not like it, our community breeds this thinking. It's ingrained in the training and curriculum, it's a topic of conversation at our annual conferences, and it's in our monthly journals. It is SO easy to get caught up in this beautiful and fun sport. The venturing into the unknown, or never-before seen. The desire to see things we've only read about in books. It's a place of wondrous adventure.

But all too often, it attracts exactly the wrong people to it. While there are hundreds of perfectly calm, responsible cave divers out there, there are the fringe groups who do it for the rush, or who do it for all the wrong reasons. Some of us ignore the warning signs. Others of us, see them, and try to raise the flag only to be summarily ignored. Someone here asked what can we do to save these people. Sadly, sometimes the answer is nothing.

In one case, I spoke to an individual's instructor on more than one occasion. I spoke to the diver twice and it caused a rift which was never healed. Finally, I simply refused to dive with that person again. Inside a year, he was dead.

I've lost friends to this sport. I've watched other friends do recoveries (like one working on this present recovery). And in one notable case, a friend of mine has had to recover another friend. At what point do we as a community own up to our behavior? At what point do we stop selling gas, or giving keys or information to those divers who do not act in the best interest of our sport? They won't police themselves. We have to do it, or watch the sport get vilified in the press, and the sites closed.

Maybe one well known agency has it right with cards that expire. Personally, I like that idea, but it handles the problem on the wrong end. We as a community of divers, instructors, site operators, fill operators, etc, NEED to have a way to recognize those who are consistently abusing our sport, and refuse to give these people the tools, means, and opportunity to put a black eye on the sport. I fear until that coordinated effort happens, we will continue to read about unfortunate accidents such as this. Yea, I know it's very "Big Brother", but if we don't handle the problem the REAL Big Brother will.

Thanks for your time.
 
Say like 2 deco bottles in OW, a stage in the cave, and SM'd HP130s?... and we have no idea if he adhered to any gas rule.



A key was not issued to the victim, he modified the gate with his own padlock to allow entrance.



You can swim all that, it gets much worse further out.

Holy cow, that's a bunch of gas..
 
At some point the body recovery is NOT worth the risk. Is the recovery team close to that point?
 
Holy cow, that's a bunch of gas..
No, it's not. Not below 150ft. Even in larger, shallower, easy cave like Ginnie, I can only get 2200-2400ft with that amount of gas.
 
Amen brother. I saw the same mind set over years of flying. They either crashed or were booted out. There is a saying, " There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, there are not too many old, bold pilots.
John

*sigh*

I don't post here on SB very much anymore. But those who know me, or have been in the water with me will hopefully understand what I am about to say.

After about 75-100 cave dives, I stepped away from it a few years ago. Some speculated it was because of the loss of my friend and former dive buddy at Jackson Blue. Some thought I had just lost interest, or that I got scared from a frightening experience I had in local cave. But really none of that was true.

The sad and true reason I stepped away from the sport was something mentioned a while back in this tread. It was the attitudes surrounding the sport. The attitudes by non-divers, by OW divers, and most often by certified cave divers.

The attitude that unless you push farther, deeper, and longer you are somehow "less qualified" or less of a "caver". The utter dismissal of the concept that someone may only be interested in doing shorter, less complex cave dives, even if they want a full certification card. The concept that the "goal" of diving a cave is not to reach the end of the line necessarily, or push new cave, or add to a map.

As much as we might not like it, our community breeds this thinking. It's ingrained in the training and curriculum, it's a topic of conversation at our annual conferences, and it's in our monthly journals. It is SO easy to get caught up in this beautiful and fun sport. The venturing into the unknown, or never-before seen. The desire to see things we've only read about in books. It's a place of wondrous adventure.

But all too often, it attracts exactly the wrong people to it. While there are hundreds of perfectly calm, responsible cave divers out there, there are the fringe groups who do it for the rush, or who do it for all the wrong reasons. Some of us ignore the warning signs. Others of us, see them, and try to raise the flag only to be summarily ignored. Someone here asked what can we do to save these people. Sadly, sometimes the answer is nothing.

In one case, I spoke to an individual's instructor on more than one occasion. I spoke to the diver twice and it caused a rift which was never healed. Finally, I simply refused to dive with that person again. Inside a year, he was dead.

I've lost friends to this sport. I've watched other friends do recoveries (like one working on this present recovery). And in one notable case, a friend of mine has had to recover another friend. At what point do we as a community own up to our behavior? At what point do we stop selling gas, or giving keys or information to those divers who do not act in the best interest of our sport? They won't police themselves. We have to do it, or watch the sport get vilified in the press, and the sites closed.

Maybe one well known agency has it right with cards that expire. Personally, I like that idea, but it handles the problem on the wrong end. We as a community of divers, instructors, site operators, fill operators, etc, NEED to have a way to recognize those who are consistently abusing our sport, and refuse to give these people the tools, means, and opportunity to put a black eye on the sport. I fear until that coordinated effort happens, we will continue to read about unfortunate accidents such as this. Yea, I know it's very "Big Brother", but if we don't handle the problem the REAL Big Brother will.

Thanks for your time.
 
At some point the body recovery is NOT worth the risk. Is the recovery team close to that point?


There was a post stating very clearly that the search had been called off but the thread has been moderated and it is gone.....so I must assume that it was not confirmed
 
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