Question Advanced gas planning for complex cave dive (upstream/downstream)
- Thread starter steinbil
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About as coherent as your last comment.. as expected.
There are those in favor of limited visual jumps. But those that advocate for them do so under strict rules.
Most of the folks that advocate visual jumps are also older non-DIR divers.
lermontov
Contributor
what strict rule are they?- no rule can account for a clumsy team coming in behind you and silting the place up - ive had it happen
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I assume you're talking about my post? Where did I suggest you break one of the fundamental rules?We have two posters arguing about whether or not info should be shared publicly plus one guy suggesting breaking one of the fundamental rules of cave diving all in the same thread. The irony is amazing
I think I’ll just sit back and watch the show.
Someone pass the
IF you have verified the gold line on a previous dive and complete the traverse on dive 2, the second jump while technically "blind" isn't actually blind because at no point in the dive do you never have a verified line that is continuous to your exit. The jump line off of gold into // is still good because you just travelled on it, the gold line itself has been verified by you very recently and is your intended exit and that is continuous as well. It is not possible to make this circuit in that direction *and the other direction defeats the purpose of doing it because you're into the flow the entire dive* without making this jump blind at some point. Quite literally impossible. Option 1 is to blind jump, option 2 is to put the jump in, leave your buddy on the gold line while you pull the line out, then have to swim over to your buddy because you just pulled your own jump line. Can't have your cake and eat it too. I prefaced with this being a somewhat unique circumstance so I wouldn't get too hung up on how this particular dive is made unless you've made it yourself.
@lermontov Have you ever actually made this dive before? Please enlighten us on how you think this circuit should be done without doing 3 dives where 1 is setup, one is up // and back gold, then the other is up gold and down // kicking into the flow the entire way just so you are not cleaning up a jump line from the wrong side, because any time you clean up a jump from the wrong side you are making a blind jump and apparently breaking a fundamental rule of cave diving.
Safe blind jumps are like safely saddling a unicorn.
Not a real fu<king thing.
Not a real fu<king thing.
lermontov
Contributor
no i have not - i have to defer to your expertise/experience here
edit: maybe some other who have done this dive have an alternative solution
Jack Hammer
Contributor
@grantctobin
Can you post a copy of Andrew Ainslies Rethinking Bailout. For whatever reason I seem unable to share my copy and feel it is relevant.
Can you post a copy of Andrew Ainslies Rethinking Bailout. For whatever reason I seem unable to share my copy and feel it is relevant.
I was taught it there ways, first way is: Never, don't, not even once.
The second way involves that idea that generally you must be in a cave you know well, connecting the end of a circuit, can see the other line from the end of the line you are currently on, the vis must be good and not likely to decrease, you must to returning to line that is already connected to the exit.
IMO the alternate in that situation for a visual a jump is not to do it at all. Deploy a jump spool and grab your current line, your number two man swim overs with the end of a jump spool, and grab the exit line. The rest of the team stacks up on the exit line, and then you reel yourself to the line. You always have a continuous guideline.
Info - TDI Rebreather Cavern/Intro to Cave
If your rebreather breaks you're on OC. Learn how to cave dive OC first. Disagreed. I have only CCR cave. Only thing thing that is not so covered in it, is calculating gas to go in. You calculate bailout gas to get out and train bailout exits. Important thing is that you can hover perfectly...
Post in thread 'TDI Rebreather Cavern/Intro to Cave'
Info - TDI Rebreather Cavern/Intro to Cave
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