Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[Arkman]

I just got done with my advanced open waters this weekend I wanted to share my thoughts. To be honest, I wasn't expecting much going into it but I wanted to get a few more training dives in before a trip coming up. I didn't really do the class for the card, I was hoping to just work on my skills some.

It wasn't off to a great start when I go there for our 5pm start but we didn't actually get started until closer to 6. We got into the classroom and there was some paperworked laid out for us. As we filled it out, the instructor announced to the class that this was his first advanced open water class he's taught. This wouldn't have bothered me normally, I think there are plenty of people that could be great instructors on thier first class. The issue was the attitue was more that we shouldn't expect much because it was his first.

Then he made a comment about "hoping" that nobody checked yes to the medical issues because we'd need a doctor to sign off. I felt there were two issues with this. One - Why not send these forms ahead of time so they can be filled out without wasting class time. Second - I felt like he was issuing a warning or even advising people to check no even if maybe they should check yes.

Once we had started all the classroom work it became pretty obvious that I wasn't going to get much out of it. He didn't even have the current course materials in front of him. Several times throughout the discussion he made comments about how his book (from when he was advanced certified in the 90s I think he said) was out of date. He basically ran through the section titles in each chapter then had us take turns reading and sharing our answers for the knowlege review. That would have been fine but he didn't have the answers anywhere. He just let us give the answers and would try and correct them if a student said the wrong ones. That said, there were several questions that the agreed upon answers weren't correct. Many of my classmates would change the answers they wrote down to what I'm almost certain were incorrect answers.

Once we wrapped up with the classroom work we headed to the dive site to do our first 3 dives: peak performance, navigation, and night. Again, right away I realized this wasn't going to be super helpful. On the peak performance he decided that we wouldn't do a weight check since it was our first dive and all of our tanks were full. We decended to the platform and all hovered for 60 seconds. Then we spent about 10 minutes swimming through hoops. Honestly that would have been fine if we would have gotten any advice or guidance during it. Any kind of take away, but we didn't.

Then after a short "surface interval" of us floating at the surface and discussing our navigation requirments (which we did for about 3 mintues on land), we decended again to take care of those skills. My buddy and I got through ours fine, but another couple weren't able to. They struggled on land with the simple navigation so there was no way they were ready for anything below the water. Both dives were really rushed, presumibly since we started almost an hour late and they were trying to cram "3" dives into the first night.

Time for the night dive. We all had to rush because dark was falling fast and the mosquitoes were terrible. After a super fast dive breifing we all decended and had a nice, albeit short, night dive. It was so short because a couple of the divers didn't swap tanks between dives because they had only used half. Our bottom time was a minimum just to reach the requirement. I know that because the instructor referenced this multiple times during the weekened.

The next morning we headed back out to the dive site for the deep dive and the search and recovery dive. He informed us that the platform was at about 80 so we'd go down there and do our skills. We'd go down in two groups at seperate times. The first group (not mine) went down and they didn't make it very long. One diver got cold at about 60' (probably about 45 degrees or so at that point). Another experienced a free flow so they aborted the dive. Everyone was fine, no issues or panicing from what I understand. That group took a break and our instructor brought me and my buddy down. We made it to the platform which was supposed to be at 80ish but was really at 96. I for sure noticed some narcosis but I was fine. My buddy however, was not. He was very clearly in a panic but the instructor helped him work through it without issue. We didn't stay down very long at all because of the other diver (with good reason) but we did make a safe accent and an extra long safety stop too. One of the other divers in the other group (the one with the free flow) was able to complete his deep dive.

The final dive was the seach and recovery. That was a fun dive and I got to play with a lift bag and some search patterns. Nothing really remarkable happened but this was proably the dive that I "learned" the most during the weekend (sadly).

After all that we went back to the shop to fill out paperwork for our certifications (execpt the two that didn't complete the deep dive).

Over all it was a pretty dissapointing experience. I was really hoping to work on trim and boyancy which was hard to do when we were kneeling all the time, except the 60 seconds required for the PPB dive. I was also excited to experience a deeper dive but it wasn't very enjoyable. Although I was comfortable and ok, it was frustraiting to plan a dive at 80' then find out it was actually 96'. Now, I know what some might be thinking. If you planned for 80 why did you go to 96. There is more to that story and the plan was changed at the last minute. I was personally comfortable with it. I felt like I had a good handle on it and was ok with the change. I knew before I even got wet that we'd be going to 96'. It was just odd to me that the instructor didn't know the platform was that deep until the guy diving a line down came back up and told us.

I also understand that I maybe should have spoken up during the weekend and expressed some of my concerns. And maybe you're right. I thought about it, I talked about it with my wife after our dives friday. But honestly, I felt like no matter what I said, it wouldn't change anything so I just tried to figure out how to get as much out of it as I could. Starting a fight with my instructor wasn't going to help, so I just asked questions and worked on my skills as I could.

After this weekend do I feel like I'm ready for a 100' dive because I'm and "advanced open water diver". Nope. I'll keep working on my skills, doing my research, and find a better instructor to take more training with. I may even redo my advance open water course all together. I actually am close with another organization so maybe I'll do that instead. Who knows.

I just wanted to share my experence with others. This is just a good example of why finding a good instructor/shop matters.

 

[Doc]

Spend money on doing more diving. Read the manuals, ask those around you, observe and analyze.

Spend money on doing more diving… or did i already say that?

 

[tursiops]

Thank you for your report, which was an interesting account of some training that broke some training standards, showed some poor judgement on the part of the instructor, and in general was a substandard class. I hope you will provide your report to the shop who charged you for it and that they will take that new instritor in hand and try and shape him up. I hope that you will provide your report to PADI so that they can take that shop in hand and try and shape them up.
Yes, you could have said something during the class, and you are right that it likely would have accomplished nothing. Don't beat yourself up however; it is not your fault the instructor was incompetent.

 

[Outbound]

I strongly second what tursiops wrote - you didn't get quality instruction. To start with, the issue of having you complete your paperwork immediately before your course began is highly problematic. It's not the way it should be done. Paperwork should be completed in advance of your course, giving students an opportunity to see a physician if they need medical clearance. And there should be no pressure whatsoever, implied or not, from a dive pro to have students simply check "no" to all the medical questionnaire items.

Not doing a proper weight check is just idiotic. The only time I could see skipping that is if each and every single student in the course had a good amount of experience diving in the same gear and exposure protection they were using and had their weighting dialed in. In my experience, that's never the case.

Seems to me that the only good judgement your instructor made was taking your class down in two separate groups on the deep dive. The narcosis and anxiety issues that some students experienced on the deep dive are not uncommon. The latter might have been helped somewhat if the instructor gave a proper briefing that explained the true depth of the deep platform.

You should absolutely follow tursiops' advice and talk to the shop owner about your poor experience, and reach out to PADI as well.

 

[KatieMac]

Thank you for your report, which was an interesting account of some training that broke some training standards, showed some poor judgement on the part of the instructor, and in general was a substandard class. I hope you will provide your report to the shop who charged you for it and that they will take that new instritor in hand and try and shape him up. I hope that you will provide your report to PADI so that they can take that shop in hand and try and shape them up.
Yes, you could have said something during the class, and you are right that it likely would have accomplished nothing. Don't beat yourself up however; it is not your fault the instructor was incompetent.

Is all of that the new instructor's fault though? I feel like scheduling/resource utilization is much more about dive shop management. Cram it in. Pay less for the instructors time, the boat and the boat captain, etc. It feels a bit like the newbie instructor (first AOW course) was set up to fail - and like the OP, didn't say anything to dive shop management.

 

[dlofting]

I think you're right in that some of this falls on the shop, but maybe it's more a lack of oversight. The instructor was new and showed a lack of skills/experience in teaching, organization and preparation. He/she seemed OK dealing with issues during the actual dive. Probably needed to do a couple of classes with a more seasoned instructor present to provide feedback......and that's one place where the shop failed.

 

[Arkman]

Thanks for the reply everyone. I agree, the shop is partially to blame. They have a staff that seems to take care of other admin functions. There is no reason they couldn't have done the paperwork ahead of time. I signed up at the end of May and asked if there was anything I needed to do like paperwork; they had the oportunity.

I should point out, in case anyone looks at my profile. This was not my local shop. I don't want to lead people to believe it was. The shop I had been using is in the process of retiring and no longer teaching and my other local shop didn't have an advanced open water I could make it to. I picked one out of town.

I've used this shop in the past and never really felt all that welcomed. It seems like, unless you're a "regular" and spend a bunch of money there, they aren't super into helping. Unfortunately, this has been my experience at several places I've been to. In my part of the country there are not many to pick from.

All that said, other than having another instructor there to correct him, I don't know that better shop support would have changed much. He still had the attitude that he was going to do the minimum for it.

This summer I've been trying really hard to learn more about the sport. One common theme I keep seeing is that it's not about the agency, it's about the instructor. Many agencies are making it cheaper and faster to get certs, but a good instructor will still give good instruction. So far this has been my experience. My original open waters I learned a lot, a lot more than others I've met with similar certs and experience. I felt like my stress and rescue class was really really good. They worked hard to teach us skills and really pushed us to "master" them, not just be able to do it to the minimum standard.

Part of the reason I wasn't going to say anything is I think I am going to have to use this shop more in the future (for tank rental/fills). I'm a little concerned that if I complain I'll get even worse service. The more I think about it though, the more I realize that it doesn't matter. Even if they refuse to stop selling to me all together (which I doubt), I'll feel better about it. Not because I complained, but because I wouldn't have made the effort to make it better for future divers. If something happened to a student becuase of this instructor, I would feel like it was my fault.

 

[KatieMac]

All that said, other than having another instructor there to correct him, I don't know that better shop support would have changed much. He still had the attitude that he was going to do the minimum for it.

Perhaps better scheduling so you had enough time to do all the skills rather than trying to cram it in. Perhaps just a general goal of making sure the students get the best education rather than just the required education.

As for his "attitude", that is your speculation. It may have been just lack of experience, knowledge, confidence, etc which could have been greatly helped by having someone mentor him.

 

[Jafo19D]

1) Your instructor sucked
2) Even if he had been squared away there's not much to AOW.

I've learned tons more just from sites like this one and of course diving.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I would do everything @tursiops said to do in regards to communicating with the shop and PADI. It could partially be the shops fault too like @dlofting said, so do both.
I wouldn’t retake AOW, all that is is just an intro to specialties that you might take later. You had your intro, even though it was somewhat lame, now find better instructors and do the actual specialties you’re interested in, the full class.
A lot of learning to dive is teaming up with other divers whom you like their style and get mentored.
At least it used to be that way before they had every specialty under the sun including how to properly pee in your wetsuit.
I learned peak performance buoyancy by diving with a guy once that was really good and had his weight so dialed in it was perfect. There was no instructor involved. I just followed his advice and began incrementally removing weight until I had it perfect. I can confidently say that in 99% of cases where people stuggle with buoyancy control they are overweighted. There seems to be an ingrained culture of extreme overweighting in dive instruction ever since the invention of the modern BC. I’m very suspect about how they teach mainstream PBB. I think they mostly just teach people how to use the inflator button and make them better elevator divers.
And the fact that your instructor had you guys on your knees the whole time except for the PBB part just shows how the culture of overweighting has become so standard in modern instruction.
I doubt that instructor would know what proper buoyancy was if it bit him in the ass.