Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program vs Just taking specialty classes you want?

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Solo diving cert from what agency?

SDI Solo Certification. No I was not cleared or given a waiver - as far as I know.

Don't have any friends that are instructors. Not that I don't want any - just never happened... I am only telling you that I have an OW Cert and a Solo Cert. I have never needed anything else to date.

 

[Omisson]

SDI Solo Certification.

Don't have any friends that are instructors. Not that I don't want any - just never happened... I am only telling you that I have an OW Cert and a Solo Cert. I have never needed anything else to date.

You don't meet the requirements for solo diver. "Equivalent" only means a scuba agency certification that is a coordinate to the SDI Advanced certification.

Your instructor- unless he called and got a standards waiver- didn't do his job.

 

[NAM001]

I would not turn you down. I say that because the mere offering of an OW card only says you have experience that is limited to the OW course. Any ceritfication that advances teh OW class limits extends the limited restrictions of hte ow card. I am more than familiar of what 60-70's ow courses equate to today. (MASTER) comes to mind. And you should never be turned down for having a master card.

My only point was I dont have AOW - I only have OW and I was able to get Solo Certified (on my wife's insistence) - you don't need AOW to get the card. My bad on describing what is needed... I was able to prove that I was safe and a decent diver with lots of experience even though I was only OW certified....

 

[Omisson]

I would not turn you down. I say that because the mere offering of an OW card only says you have experience that is limited to the OW course. Any ceritfication that advances teh OW class limits extends the limited restrictions of hte ow card. I am more than familiar of what 60-70's ow courses equate to today. (MASTER) comes to mind. And you should never be turned down for having a master card.

I don't doubt the ow taught then was better- but not really sure how one simply ignores an agency standard (again assuming no one contacted the training department for clearance).

It's not the instructors right to change requirements but is the instructors obligation to follow standards.

If an agency lists a particular OW card as EQUIVALENT to AOW that's one thing... An instructor making that call on his own... Another.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Omission - I agree with your statement that instructors should follow standards.
I can tell you I had no idea that I circumvented the standards - I went back into the book and it says nothing about AOW...

That said - I only got the card for my wife - I have been doing solo night dives in inlets for quite a while and my wife asked me about how it might be dangerous - so I told her I would get a certification - she trusts me now that I have the certification. I am not giving back the card now that I have it.

 

[Omisson]

Omission - I agree with your statement that instructors should follow standards.
I can tell you I had no idea that I circumvented the standards - I went back into the book and it says nothing about AOW...

That said - I only got the card for my wife - I have been doing solo night dives in inlets for quite a while and my wife asked me about how it might be dangerous - so I told her I would get a certification - she trusts me now that I have the certification. I am not giving back the card now that I have it.

Not your fault- it's your instructors.

You wouldn't know what the standards are per-se.... you would have seen the prerequisite: 100 dives and SDI advanced diver or equivalent - but you wouldn't know what the agency regards as "equivalent".

But again... MAYBE your instructor called up and got a waiver.... Maybe....

 

[NAM001]

I just read sdi's solo requirements.

"The first step is to meet the requirements of the course. Solo diving is for divers that have gained a lot of experience already by taking continuing education courses and diving with buddies. Before starting the solo diver course, the diver must: be 21 years old, hold an advanced diver certification and be able to provide proof of 100 logged dives."

Based on the wording,,,, can a nitrox cert be regarded as an advanced diving (not advanced diver) certification (OW being basic and all follow on training be considered advanced compared to OW). It doesnt say advanced openwater diver certification or agency equivilant. Just asking... Does an instructor have the ability to determine if a diver has the proper skills in leu of a card. To look at ones log book to evaluate experience and verifying with a dive, is there wiggle room? If Mr Coustou walked in and wanted to take a rebreather course would you deny him because he did not have an AOW or some other card on him.

 

[Omisson]

No. Advanced diver certification is advanced diver or advanced open water or higher RATING not specialty.

 

[NAM001]

My point was that cards represent a minimal level of skills and nothing more. each generations cards represent something different (less and less). My original OWD ward represented todays what todays master card represents. OWD was an all encompassing diver card in the recreational arena. I would say that an OWD card is equivilant to any AOW or master card. I want to say in MY early days there was OWD and dive master equivlant and instructor. And if one could present the skill sets of the OWD card to show they meet or exceed can you just skip the formal AOW class and dives. I don=t know if thta would be an instructor decision or an agency decision to waiver.

I don't doubt the ow taught then was better- but not really sure how one simply ignores an agency standard (again assuming no one contacted the training department for clearance).

It's not the instructors right to change requirements but is the instructors obligation to follow standards.

If an agency lists a particular OW card as EQUIVALENT to AOW that's one thing... An instructor making that call on his own... Another.

 

[stuartv]

No. Advanced diver certification is advanced diver or advanced open water or higher RATING not specialty.

I don't know about anyone else, but since this is the SDI/TDI subforum, when I see the name of a particular certification, and no agency is specified, then I have to assume the certification is an SDI or TDI certification.

And SDI does not have "advanced diver". Nor does SDI have "advanced open water".

What SDI does have is "Advanced Adventure Diver" and "Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program". Saying "advanced diver" or "advanced open water" is useless in this context because there is no way to determine which SDI certification you're talking about. PADI had Advanced Open Water, and it is the direct equivalent to SDI's Advanced Adventure Diver.

It is really disappointing to me that SDI has such confusing names for these certification levels and that their other documentation does such a poor job of identifying which they are talking about.

hold an advanced diver certification and be able to provide proof of 100 logged dives

Assuming that the capitalization does match the actual documentation, this statement is perfectly UNclear as to whether it means ANY certification beyond OW Scuba Diver, or Advanced Adventure Diver, or Advanced Scuba Diver. In my mind, a Computer Nitrox diver certification card IS AN "advanced diver certification". So is an Advanced Buoyancy Control certification card. In fact, mine actually say "Advanced" on the back of the cards, IIRC. Somehow, I don't think that is what is intended as the prerequisite for Solo Diver certification. Yet, because you can interpret the written rule that way, how can you say it's wrong for an instructor to issue a Solo card to someone with 100 dives in their log book and, for example, a Computer Nitrox C card?

---------- Post added January 12th, 2015 at 09:12 AM ----------

From what I can tell, including everything written here, I don't see any NEED whatsoever for the Advanced Scuba Diver or Master Scuba Diver card. Those, in and of themselves, don't seem to get you anything. It's the specialties you have to take and the number of dives you have to log to get them that matter.

Kairoos, it seems to me that all you need to do is the Deep full specialty course. You'll have a card for that after you complete it, which you can show if a dive op asks. You may also need to log a certain number of dives to satisfy some dive ops. But, those wouldn't have to be any kind of training dives.

I've been looking at a night dive that requires prior night diving experience. If you were doing the same, you could also take the Night Diving specialty class, which should satisfy the requirement for that.

IOW, from what I've seen every dive that requires more than just OW requires something specific and if you have done the specialty courses for those specific things, it's not going to matter if you have an Advanced card or not. (though you still may need to have 25 or 50 logged dives)

Also, I just got back from the Caribbean. I told my dive op it was my very first diving since getting my OW card. And I told them I had already gotten my Computer Nitrox card. They took me to 85 - 89 feet on two different dives and they supplied me with Nitrox. And they NEVER looked at ANY of my C-cards or dive log. So, depending on where you go for vacation, I wouldn't worry too much about documentation issues preventing you from doing the dives you want to do. If it's in the U.S., I would expect dive ops to be sticklers - at least to some degree. Outside the U.S. - at least in places like the Caribbean - less so. After all, it's really all about liability and insurance, right? Other than an altruistic desire that a dive op MAY have to keep their customers from getting hurt, the only reason anyone checks documentation is to protect themselves from getting sued, right?

Second, anyone who dives today should be doing both Oxygen and CO testing/analyzing for their fills and filling out a Nitrox log at the shop. That record is both for your and the dive ops benefit - and if you "skip" that part you are only endangering yourself... Or leaving your family without a vital record in the event of an issue on your dive.

In filling out the fill log- you need to enter or write your Nitrox/EAN cert number...

Third, I wouldn't use one shop as a representative sample for basing a norm on...

But hey - it's your call...

Since you quote me on this, I'll just say: One, I personally tested every Nitrox tank I used, using a model of O2 Analyzer that I was already familiar with. But, I did not fill out any logs or anything like that. I either immediately attached my rig to the bottle and then dove it, or I labeled it with a piece of duct tape and a Sharpie and used it that same day. All of this testing was done either on the boat on the way out, or at the cenote, just before diving. I've only been out on 3 dive boats so far, but they all seemed to work the same way and I'm not sure how anyone accomplishes diving off a boat with a vacation destination dive op where they test their gas at "the shop" and fill out a log there. My last dive op was temporarily without a shop - they were moving from their old one to their one. Or so they told me, anyway. All the gas I used when with them was either already on the boat and appeared to be supplied by the boat operator, which my dive op was contracted with, or it was supplied by someone at the cenote, also via some contract with my dive op.

I did not do CO testing and your post is the first recommendation I've seen to always also do CO testing.

As others have pointed out, stuartv is absolutely wrong here and the advice should not be taken.

Can you quote which piece or pieces of what I said is/are wrong? Keep in mind that the OP was asking if he needs an actual Advanced card or if having the specific specialty certifications that are relevant to the desired dive, and overall number of logged dives is sufficient. I said "I wouldn't worry too much about documentation issues...", which is 100% true. I wouldn't. Note that I did NOT say that I wouldn't make sure I had the relevant/required training and experience. But, if I wanted to do a, for example, deep dive that the dive op said "advanced certification required", and I had a Deep Diver cert, an Underwater Nav cert, and 50 logged dives, I absolutely would not worry about it if I did not have the actual Advanced Scuba Diver C card. Especially, in the Caribbean. Would I get burned by that at some point? Maybe, but I doubt it.