advice on lessons

[Donna&Scott]

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome. As mentioned earlier, we tried snuba on our honeymoon in Aruba and immediately decided we need to learn to dive.

Otay! First question...Is there any advantage/disadvantage to taking lessons from a dive shop vs. the local community college? The CC is a little cheaper, but we're not sure what we compromise by not going to a professional dive shop. Any thoughts?

 

[DennisW]

Absolutely, I'll bet you get lot's of thoughts. Your best bet is to pick an instructor that you believe will give you the best course. Get some questions from the people on this board and others, research the subject and ask the instructors your questions. You are interviewing an employee. And you will be paying this person to teach you a skill that can be fun and it can be dangerous. Make sure they give you the skills you need so diving will be a fun and safe sport that you will enjoy for many, many years. Here is a link to a site that may help. http://diverlink.com/newdiver/whichagency.htm

Good Luck and Enjoy!

 

[Tavi]

Hi and welcome,
I found that when I checked out the local shops, and talked with the people at each one. it made it much easier to make a choice. My wife and I narrowed it down from five shops in our area, to one that we really feel comfortable with. I don't mean comfortable as in easy. I mean comfortable knowing that the training is good, and the people are knowledgable, helpfull and freindly.These things may be a lot more important than a difference in price.
Enjoy, Tavi

 

[Walter]

.........a dive shop exists to sell equipment. A college exists to educate people. While there are excellent instructors at dive shops and poor instructors at colleges, that's not they way I'd wager. Your best bet is to investigate each option available to you. The mere fact that one class is at a dive shop does not make it better or worse.

WWW™

 

[Iguana Don]

Donna & Scott, my that's an unusual name.

Anyway, for your benefit, take the course that teaches the most skills, not the easiest course. you will not only come out money ahead in the long run, but you will be a much better diver right from the start.

ID

 

[bio guy]

Donna&Scott

Get in contact with the instructors. You may find that it is one or more of the instructors from one of the local shops that is brought in to teach the course at the college.

 

[turnerjd]

Donna & Scott,

Firstly welcome, and secondly, some key points in getting started.

1. When you book courses the first thing to ignore is the cost. Cost is pretty much irrelevant. there are some very good instructors that don't do it comercially. You mention a community college - the guy teaching here will probably be doing it because he enjoys it rather than for the money.

2. Avoid gimicky extras. Things like free dive computer use on OW courses is a gimick to get you to buy computers, it is probably better to learn the tables first, and get yourself happy with them before you go into computers. (we've debated this in some depth here!)

3. Some people teach more than the minimum necessary, the program I learnt with had us all helping with boats etc.. when we went out to dive, there are others that expect you to be just customers and have nearly everything done for you. I suspect you will see this kind of difference between a Community college and a dive store. Having to be involved with more has probably made me a better, more aware diver. More is good.

4. Agency is pretty much unimportant nowadays. The big US ones (PADI, NAUI, SSI, NASDS) all follow the US RSTC guidelines and their programms are almost identical. There are others (mainly in europe) with curriculums that are more in tune with local conditions.

5. Instructor is the key. Find an instructor that you get along with. Some operate on a production line basis, others are far more into treating people as individuals. There are plenty of horror stories about unsympathetic instructors. Find out how the instructor will treat people that have a problem with a particular skill. - Find an instructor you feel happy with.

6. How is the course taught? Some people now teach using computers and CD rom only, others will still do the old fashioned lectures for you. make sure they are using a method you are happy with.

7. How long is the course? It is possible to do the PADI O/W in less than 15 contact hours, this is IMO a bit TOO short, probably 20+ is good.

There are probably more, and If I think of them I will addd them

Hope you enjoy your course, and let us know how things go.

Jon T

 

[pinkladydi]

Originally posted by Walter
.........a dive shop exists to sell equipment. A college exists to educate people. While there are excellent instructors at dive shops and poor instructors at colleges, that's not they way I'd wager. Your best bet is to investigate each option available to you. The mere fact that one class is at a dive shop does not make it better or worse.

WWW™

beleive this attitude ~~ I've assisted in both circumstances, the school will probably give you LESS pressure to over spend HIGH dollars on your equiptment.
try to find a dive club in your area one that isn't associated with a shop, go to a meeeting & ask for recomendations on the shops reputations, there will probably be 1 or 2 that you'll be warned to stay away from, listen to Experienced Divers, then make your choice with knowledge in hand.
Don't get me wrong this is life support stuff but if you can't afford to buy ALL the top dollar stuff , think about what could be rented for your check out dive. I found it a better practice to take the course before buying my gear.
Try / rent, assorted styles / brands , before making major $$ purchases.

 

[Walter]

.........why do people continue to tell it?

Jon said, "4. Agency is pretty much unimportant nowadays. The big US ones (PADI, NAUI, SSI, NASDS) all follow the US RSTC guidelines and their programms are almost identical."

I'm sure Jon believes this, but it is far from true. A more accurate statement is: They all meet OR EXCEED minimum standards set by RSTC. There is a big difference between meeting and exceeding. There are also big differences between agency standards. While the agency is not the most important factor in choosing a course, it is an important one.

You will find a small % of instructors in all agencies who exceed agency standards and teach a very good class. The vast majority of instructors follow agency standards to the letter. If that instructor's agency has high standards you'll get a good class. If that instructor's agency has standards on the low end, you'll get much less out of your class. None of the agencies are perfect, they could all improve.

There are two major viewpoints on teaching diving. Only you can decide which viewpoint is right for you.

Viewpoint 1.

Diving is fun and easy. It is possible to make the course easy as well, if we eliminate skills that might possibly frighten anyone on their first day of class. If too many skills are included it results in task loading which will interfere with a student learning necessary tasks and make them an unsafe diver.

Viewpoint 2.

Diving is fun and easy. It is possible to make the course easy as well, if we begin with simple skills and allow plenty of practice time on each skill. Once a simple skill is mastered, other elements are added to the skill allowing plenty of time to practice each element. When those added elements are mastered, still more elements are added in the same manner. By approaching skill development in this manner we are able to teach quite complex skills in a manner that makes it easy for students. Skills that might seem frightening to a student on the first day of class are a logical and easy progression by the time those skills are presented in class. This gives a student confidence and the ability to solve problems without panic.

Some agencies use viewpoint 1, others use viewpoint 2. There are some which fall somewhere in between. There are more than 2 agencies. Most divers are PADI certified. PADI is the largest agency by far. PADI follows viewpoint 1. NAUI & YMCA follow viewpoint 2.

Decide what's best for you, then interview potential instructors. Find out how the instructor teaches. What does that particular instructor include? Agency is merely one factor among many in deciding which course to take, it is not necessarily the most important factor.

WWW™

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Walter
.........why do people continue to tell it?
Jon said, "4. Agency is pretty much unimportant nowadays. The big US ones (PADI, NAUI, SSI, NASDS) all follow the US RSTC guidelines and their programms are almost identical."

I'm sure Jon believes this, but it is far from true. A more accurate statement is: They all meet OR EXCEED minimum standards set by RSTC. There is a big difference between meeting and exceeding. There are also big differences between agency standards. While the agency is not the most important factor in choosing a course, it is an important one.

Walter,

The differences between the US agencies are very minor when you compare the differences between the US and European agencies.

European agencies (eg BSAC, FFESSM) have courses that include far more than ANY of the US agencies. As a gross generalisation, The training offered by the US agencies is good for vacation divers who want to go off and occasionally enjoy themselves, often accompanied by a DM. Again, a gross generalisation, but the european agencies teach decompression diving from the start, and are more aimed at diving in their local conditions, which are generally cold, deep (40+m) wrecks (very few coral reefs here in europe!).

Chalk and cheese. Very different.

Yes there are differences between the US agencies, but in the GLOBAL scale of things, they are unimportant. They will all teach you to dive safely, although at a more 'recreational' level than other agencies.

Australia will almost definately have its own training agencies as well, and their curriculum will be different from the US agencies, and more in tune with their local diving conditions.

Jon T