advice on lessons

[Walter]

............while the European agencies I'm familiar with (BSAC & CMAS) are excellent when compared to most US agencies, you are underestimating the differences between US agencies. If you have access to standards of any of those agencies, I'd be VERY interested in seeing them.

WWW™

 

[turnerjd]

Walter,

There was a web page I found a while ago with a skill by skill evaluation of the different agencies. I'll spend some time going through my history folder to find the page for you.

Jon T

Edited later

go here for more info. This shows the differences that walter is on about between the US agencies. I will try and find a list of BSAC Novice I and II skills (when I did it Novice I was the pool portion, and Novice II the actual open water dives) (or the replacement course-club diver) to compare this list to.

For the accademic part - the BSAC basic manual has more information in it that the PADI encyclopedia (but without the aquatic environment section).

 

[turnerjd]

OK - I havent found the basic skill list, BUT I have found a list of the skills necessary for an OW qualified diver to perform before they are allowed to dive without an instructor in a BSAC Club. These are what the BSAC thinks are necessary to bring OW divers upto their entry level qualification.

This is to be done over 3 (1hr) theory lessons, 2 pool sessions, and 4 open water dives.

Quite a list of things they consider missing from an open water course isn't it! - if you go to the post above and follow the link, NONE of the US courses have many of these techniques (they all have the simple ones like reg. clearing, and AAS use, but thats about it). Puts the differences between the US agencies into perspective.

Jon T

PS I've kept the BSAC terminology. DV = Reg!

Theory Lesson I- Decompresion

Introduction
Review of nitrogen release
Definitions
Table layout
Using the BSAC '88 tables for single dives with stops
Using the BSAC '88 tables for two or more dives with stops
Importance of surface interval
Dive records
Planning a second dive
Planning subsequent dives
Dive planning and conduct
Separation
Multiple dives over a series of days
Diving at altitude
Flying after diving
Your dive computer

This lesson is really just to introduce the idea of decompression tables (rather than the PADI non decompression tables) and get everybodys theory level upto a level high enough to do decompression diving.

Theory Lesson II- Diving safety and rescue skills

Buddy diving
Preventing buddy separation
Preventing separation from dive boat
Emergency ascents
Artificial ventilation (AV)
When to apply AV
How to apply
Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR)
Chest compression (CC)
Determining the need for Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)
Action if the casualty vomits
Aftercare


Theory Lesson III- Diver rescue

Assist or rescue
Making a rescue
Assess - plan - act
The type of incident
Recovering the casualty
On surface- conscious, co-operative
On surface- conscious, unco-operative
On surface- unconscious
Underwater- conscious
Underwater- unconscious
Ascent risks
Lifting an unconscious body to the surface
On surfacing
Remove from danger
Towing methods
Removing equipment
Landing the casualty
After Landing

Sheltered water training

I- Assisted ascents and AV

Assembling, testing and putting on scuba unit and conducting a buddy check
Buoyancy control and using a weightbelt to achieve neutral buoyancy
Removing and clearing a flooded DV
The ability to breathe from an AAS
The ability to share a single DV
Ascending using an AAS
Ascending sharing a single DV
Perform AV in the water.
Removing, dismantling and providing basic aftercare to your scuba unit

II -Rescue skills

Making a stride entry into water
Providing buoyancy for an unconscious casualty at the surface
Performing Artificial Ventilation on a simulated casualty
Summoning assistance & helping to a simulated casualty
Completing a full rescue sequence
Removing, dismantling and providing basic aftercare to your scuba unit

Open Water dives

After 4 OW dives the student must be able to:-

Perform a Controlled Buoyant Lift of a casualty and administer AV at the surface
Tow a casualty for approximately 50m while administering AV
Land a casualty onto a shelving beach and remove scuba unit
Ascend using an AAS as both casualty and donor
Carry out a simulated decompression stop

 

[large_diver]

I agree with many of the comments above:

- Talk to several different instructors before deciding which one is best.

- If possible, find some experienced divers in your area and talk to them about instructors. This will give you a somewhat unbiased opinion. More experienced dives have enough experience to be able to understand what SHOULD be taught basic OW courses and may know which local instructors offer the best courses.

- Use regional diver message boards to get opinions. If you are in the US, I agree that the agency is less important than the instructor.

Good luck!

 

[Walter]

..........I've seen it before.......in fact, I wrote it. I would love to get a copy of BSAC standards so I could include them in the comparison as well. I'll look at the list of BSAC requirements tonight when I have time to study it in detail. On the surface, it appears to include CPR, but it also seems to leave out a great deal both in theory and in skill development. My OW class contains not 3 hours of theory, but 16. I also have 16 hours of skills development in the pool. My pool sessions include everything you list as required by BSAC and lots more as well. While what you've listed exceeds YMCA standards in two (CPR & open water rescue of a submerged victim) instances, in most areas YMCA standards far exceed what you've described. Again, I'll spend some time on this tonight, this is just my first impression.

WWW™

 

[gozumutti]

Walter & Jon

I had approx. 12 - 15 hours of theory (don't remember exactly) in the OW course I took (PADI), with the instructor insisting and actually harping on the necessity of self-study.

The course was otherwise crowded and hectic, a little factory churning out OW divers, but I certainly learnt a lot of theory

gozu

 

[large_diver]

I agree with some of the comments above regarding the BSAC requirements -- I think there are some US requirements that aren't found on this list. The main things that are missing from the US requirements would be the CPR/rescue techniques. Most US agencies STRONGLY recommend that rec divers continue on to take the rescue course (though of course not required).

Also curious about the class length listed for BSAC -- my class here in the US (YMCA) was 9 hours of classroom and 6 pool sessions plus 5 open water dives. Of course, quantity does not equal quality, but can you really learn all of those BSAC-listed skills effectively in that amount of time? Maybe it's just that we colonists are slow learners ;-)

 

[large_diver]

Actually -- this class was 12 hours classroom

 

[SubMariner]

Goz, it's unfortunate that you had such a negative experience with your OW knowledge development. However, I would like to stress that ANY course (not just scuba) requires a certain amount of self-study. It's a big waste of EVERYONE'S time if a student comes to class without having put in the pre-requisite amount of time & effort.

Typically, in the case of PADI OW, that means watching the videos, reading the textbook, and completing the knowledge reviews. Classroom lectures with the modular lesson guides then teach to this information, reinforcing and elaborating on the material, as well as addressing any specific questions a student may have.

At this time quizzes and exams are administered. Remedial work is also done if a student is having any problems or requires further clarification on a particular subject. (It's also not unusual to do remedial work with a student outside the classroom.)

IOW, it's a partnership between the Instructor and the student. BOTH have to do their job to succeed.

~SubMariner~

 

[gozumutti]

Dear Submariner

I did not mind all the self-study - on the contrary. Normally, the first thing I do when confronted with ANY subject is cruise the library, the bookstore, and the net searching for all the information I can find.

The only unfortunate thing about my first scuba experience was that I received wrong information from the get go: people (ostensibly "experienced") saying, "don't mess with the books, just do an OW course," and mainly, the overfilled and hectic class. Should I have followed my usual habits, perhaps I would have saved myself some grief.

On the other hand, nothing like experience

AND...I still fell in love with it, so there are really no probs. My post was meant more to point out that even in an extremely crowded factory class, the instructor was good about giving theory. I did NOT object to the amount of theory, as a matter of fact, since then I have purchased a number of books and of course am following this board with great interest.

gozu