Advise for a travel friendly BCD

[scubadada]

I typically dive with 8 lbs. I could easily put two 4's in the back trim pouches but what I have been doing is putting a 2 lb weight in each of the four pockets. While I have not done it, if someone was worried about having ditchable weights, you can take two weight pouches and turn them upside down and then you would only need to undo the clip and the weights would fall out.

Just to be clear, the two weight pouches comes with the BC, it's just optional to use them for weights or you could use them for something else.

Thanks, looks like I misunderstood based on what is on the SP website

1. Two basic accessory pockets are included.
2. Optional weight pockets are available.
3. Two rear trim pouches allow you to achieve a well-balanced swimming position.

 

[MichaelMc]

Mix and match is one of the BP/W’s big benefits for the recreational diver.

If you have a back inflate BC that lets you trim out and gives the range of lift, ditchable weights, and pockets that you need, there is likely no reason to switch for that diving.

But if you start diving some other location, or (as a new diver) guessed wrong on how much lift, weights, or pockets you wanted, you can change just that part, from several companies. That is rare in all inclusive BCs.

Quick release shoulder buckles, weight integration, heavy plates/fabric ‘plates’, pockets/no pockets, padding/no padding, crotch strap/no crotch strap are all options you can swap in or out with BP/W.

I think most of the disadvantages are things that can be swapped in or out, except lack of the very tight integration that you can achieve with an all sewn in one unit BC. But an all sewn in one unit has the disadvantage that changing out the parts is hard if you bought wrong or things change.

 

[BDSC]

Thanks, looks like I misunderstood based on what is on the SP website

1. Two basic accessory pockets are included.
2. Optional weight pockets are available.
3. Two rear trim pouches allow you to achieve a well-balanced swimming position.

So I use the "accessory" pockets as my weight pockets. I'm not sure I even knew you could get optional weight pockets so what I said may have been misleading. You are spot on with your post. The accessory pockets are big enough to put weights in but not a lot of weight. Like I said, I could get a 5 lb weight in one.

 

[dmaziuk]

Lastly, the BPW seems to appeal most to people who enjoy setting up their BPW almost as a separate hobby.

That is a bit of an exaggeration I think, I'd expect we tinker for perfection rather than for the sake of tinkering (but where does one draw the line), but you are probably correct in that people who don't tinker prefer their wing, soft plate, and various pieces of padding permanently sewn together.

So, I have a question...why do BPW fans insist on calling back-inflate BCDs "jackets." How is a Stiletto or Hydros Pro or Outlaw or Biolite or Dimension any more a jacket than a BPW?

Crotch strap. No crotch strap: it's a jacket. Yes crotch strap: it's a That Which Shall Not Be Named.

 

[stuartv]

So, I have a question...why do BPW fans insist on calling back-inflate BCDs "jackets." How is a Stiletto or Hydros Pro or Outlaw or Biolite or Dimension any more a jacket than a BPW?

Ones that do are using the term incorrectly. A back inflate integrated BCD is not a jacket. Some people may use the term in a pejorative way to refer to all integrated BCDs, but it is not correct.

Thus why ScubaPro's website says, under Specs, that a Hydros Pro BD Type is a "Back-inflated" and the Classic BCD Type is a "Jacket".

 

[RayfromTX]

And those that call them poodle jackets, do so in an attempt to malign them which does them a disservice if they are trying to communicate effectively.

I would call my Zuma a jacket but that isn’t quite accurate and usually I just call it a rig. It is most similar to my backpacking rig if the truth be told.

The main reasons my wife made the switch is her desire to have more useful d-rings and need of a crotch strap. The other things she could have just lived with.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @RayfromTX

The Zuma is a back inflate BC, you can call it anything you'd like

From the Aqua Lung website:
This ultra-light, weight-integrated, back inflation BC has everything you need, yet lacks weight and bulk.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Satrekker]

A few things:

The tendency of some BP/W enthusiasts to call anything that isn't a BP/W a "poodle jacket" or to suggest that only new or less competent divers fail to recognize the unwavering superiority of the BP/W suggests a lack of reasonableness or objectivity. I have noticed something here. A number of the BP/W advocates on this forum (but not all by any means) take firm positions on this subject based on a fundamental misunderstanding. They used borrowed or rental jackets in their classes and maybe for their first dives, often the wraparound kind, and often low-end rental models, perhaps not even sized properly. They were overweighted (as many dive students are) and experienced a cumbersome, uncomfortable product. It kept them from floating to the surface when they did not want to, and kept them bobbing on the surface like a cork when the needed to be on the surface, but that did little to enhance the dive experience. They then tried a BP/W and got their weighting better sorted, and loved the feeling. In reality, a good back inflate BCD with little or no inherent buoyancy and that fit well would have done the same thing, but they don't understand that. Maybe a good wraparound BC would accomplish the same thing, I am not sure. I suspect a number of people who tout the wonders of a BP/W would be just as happy with a quality back inflate BCD that fits well, if they knew about them or tried them first.

Frankly, when I see folks with BP/Ws in warm water "fly-to-dive" destinations, I notice many of them have added things like padded shoulder straps, pockets and weight pouches. Essentially, they have converted their BP/W into a back inflate BC. Some even leave the steel plate at home and use a kydex or aluminum plate and then wear a weight belt, because of airline weight issues. Granted, if you are so inclined you can get a more reasonably sized wing than comes with a lot of factory BCs and you can certainly tailor a BP/W to your personal tastes more readily than many factory BCDs if you need extra D rings and other gadgets. I often see it claimed that a BP/W can be put together much more cheaply than the cost of a BC. I have no idea if that is true. Assuming it is, then I guess the BP/W may be worth a closer look for those who can't afford a factory BCD.

As I said in my earlier post, certain types of diving and certain body shapes make the BP/W more desirable. It is also a perfectly reasonable choice in other kinds of diving or for those who simply prefer it. I don't care in the least if someone likes something that I may not care for. I also appreciate that in some situations a backplate and wing can offer clear benefits. But come on, they are not the best choice for every diver in every situation and when someone says "hey direct me to some good travel-friendly BCDs for warm water diving, it is quite possible that a BP/W is not really what they are looking for and not really the best choice, and calling anything else a poodle jacket or a poor choice is unreasonable and unhelpful. I have a family member who is a farmer in the midwest. He drives a large, 4wd pickup. I have another family member who is a retired guy living in Miami. He drives a Vette. Neither one of these guys would be happy with the other's car. Choosing the right BC is a similar concept. What works best for one person may not be best for another. Unfortunately, some BP/W enthusiasts cannot grasp that concept. I think someone needs to counterbalance the vocal BP/W voices on this forum when someone is looking for help.

I have no issue when someone says the BP/W is an option in response to a broad request for suggestions. I have no problem when someone objectively points out what they believe to be the benefits of a BP/W. But, when a question is asked that clearly is about something other than a BP/W, and some people feel the need to jump in and "convert" that person, I think that is a bit obnoxious. When other types of BCs and divers who don't prefer the BP/W are referred to in a derogatory manner, I find that obnoxious. It would be like someone asking whether they need to spend the extra money to get a balanced regulator or not, and the only responses were that only a rebreather or a vintage double hose reg is worth owning.

Sometimes when people ask for BC suggestions, people like me who haven't drunk the kool aid just send PMs and avoid the battle. But, sometimes, I figure it is worth saying something or I am feeling a little more fiesty.

When someone comes on here and asks about which BP/W is best for them, I don't jump in and point out that they should consider a back-inflate BC instead or insult the products or users. If you have a BP/W and like it, I think that is great. If you want to tell people how much you like it, that is great too. If you had a certain type or brand of BC before and found it lacking, then you should feel free to share your experiences. But try to keep some balance and some respect for alternative views and try to understand other people may have different goals, different tastes and different needs.

That is my opinion, anyway. I hope you all continue to have great dive experiences regardless of what gear you dive with.

Way too many straw man arguments to address here. Your case wouldn't be so weak if new divers had access to and information about both bpw's and jackets from the beginning. The fact is that they don't. The only reason I wasted time and money diving a jacket was because I had never heard of a bpw. My local dive shop is a Scubapro platinum dealer. Guess what they sold me? You don't really think they educated me and helped me make the most informed decision based upon the equipment available to divers, do you? /sarc

Maybe I'm a little less forgiving than others, but I don't like the feeling of somebody having taken financial advantage of my ignorance when I was new and uninformed and looking to them for information and impartial expert advice. It might not be much to you, but after spending over $2k on equipment that I ultimately got rid of, I feel inclined to help others avoid the same mistakes. Newbies are not going to lack for information regarding jacket bc's from their local dive shop.

 

[jd950]

I mostly agree with you, but I take exception with this particular statement (regarding speed of don/doff). And I think that your misunderstanding on this point colors the rest of your point of view on the subject.

I have 3 BP/W setups - 2 are dedicated to diving doubles (warm and cold water). 1 is for diving single tank.

They are all setup specifically to actually be not (easily) adjustable at all, except for the waist belt, of course. Once setup for me, I don't want them to get out of adjustment by accident.

I would wager I can get out of my BP/W quicker than you can get out of your integrated BCD. I pop open the waist buckle and pull the right side out. That releases the crotch strap at the same time. Because the shoulder straps are adjusted properly for me, I can easily shrug out of the shoulder straps. It's even easier in the water.

One buckle to undo, total. No sternum strap to unclip. No cummerbund to undo. No need to loosen shoulder straps.

Donning may or may not be slower. The crotch strap does add a couple of seconds.

However, when I did my Divemaster test for demoing skills, I did the underwater BCD remove and replace, using my BP/W. Passed on the first try. Handling the crotch strap is not hard. It's just something to learn. The only thing that made it even tricky at all was doing it on my knees (I know! That's another discussion, not for this thread) and that I did not prep as well as I could have. If I had put on a weight belt, for the demo, to keep my wetsuit from making me floaty after I removed the BP/W, it would have been even easier.

I also did my Rescue course in my BP/W. Doffing my rig while towing an unresponsive diver and administering "rescue breaths" was also no trouble at all. I mean, it's pretty easy when all you have to do is pop one buckle, pull out one strap, and do a couple of shoulder shrugs.

The point: A BP/W that is setup right - and assuming you don't have a body shape that requires some special setup - does not require any added buckles or adjustable straps to be quick and easy to don/doff.

I think the main problem is that most people who try a BP/W don't have the benefit of someone experienced to help them get it setup right for them and to show them how to easily do things like don/doff. I definitely agree that getting one setup right initially is harder than a "normal" integrated BCD.

And, even people whom you might expect to be "experts" on this are not necessarily. Not long after I started tech training, my tech instructor changed from some kind of "comfort" harness to a Hogarthian harness. He used it for a while and then went back to a comfort style harness. I firmly believe that his issues were that he had not used one before and he had his shoulder straps setup too tight. And he wouldn't listen to me about it because I was "just some student who was also a fairly new diver". (He didn't say that with his words, but he did with his actions) You might expect a tech instructor to really be expert in setting up a Hogarthian harness, but I think that is not always the case. Thus, not only did he abandon it, but any student he had who relied on him for BP/W info would also be likely to feel the same way. In his case, it's not that he abandoned a BP/W. But, that he abandoned the Hogarthian harness arrangement, which (I think) gives some of the real benefit of a BP/W. If he ever dived single tank, he would probably use an integrated BCD - if he weren't a tech snob who would shun it simply because it's "rec" gear.

You made some interesting points. Thank you for providing that information. From what I have seen, they are awkward to don and doff, but what I have seen may not be an accurate representation.

 

[jd950]

That is a bit of an exaggeration I think, I'd expect we tinker for perfection rather than for the sake of tinkering (but where does one draw the line), but you are probably correct in that people who don't tinker prefer their wing, soft plate, and various pieces of padding permanently sewn together.

Crotch strap. No crotch strap: it's a jacket. Yes crotch strap: it's a That Which Shall Not Be Named.

I did not mean it as an exaggeration. From what I see here, BPW users seem to tinker and experiment and adjust their gear and try new bits and pieces in a way that looks to me like a sort of sub-hobby. Kind of like I do with dive camera housings and strobes and arms, etc.

I disagree with the crotch strap argument, but we are each entitled to our own opinion. If someone doesn't use a crotch strap on a BPW, then it becomes a "jacket" to you? And if I add a crotch strap to my BC, does it it then suddenly cease to become a "jacket" and become a BP/W? There are BCs that can accept a crotch strap or be easily modified to do so, but they usually aren't needed on a properly fitting BC (in my experience).