AKR or Cocoview for Xmas

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plmbrok

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Location
Near Austin, Texas
I have read only praises for both places. We are starting our research for our Xmas trip. We need help and suggestions for choosing one over the other .

We will be there for one week of Diving, Diving and more Diving.


Does AKR offer any shore diving? Are the extras that AKR(3 boat dives vs. Unlimited diving) offers worth missing out on on 24/7 diving at Coco? I would like to watch the sun come up from underwater!

One of us is an Instructor and the other is an Advanced diver with over 100 dives.


All help & suggestions appreciated.


R & D
 
Did 8 diving days at CCV pre-Christmas. It is the rainy season but for the first 4 days it was like Camelot - wet only when asleep or maybe when diving. The Christmas explosion (decorations) went up about the 11th. Dives were fine but runoff from rain cut viz a bit in a few spots. Actually two boat dives in the AM and again in the PM as you can drop off on the return and follow one of the walls back to CCV.

Two night dives, two sunrise dives, 4-5 dives a day one day 6. Nitrox is good at cutting fatigue and nitrogen but even using that my computer never fully cleared before the next day of diving. Sunrise over the wreck out front is very cool.
 
That's the middle of rainy season in Roatan. My first trip down there was at the end of October and it rained 24/7 the whole week we were there. The only effect on the diving was lower vis than normal but out of the water it was miserable. Yes, I spent most of my day in the water but when I did get through with those 4-6 dives a day I wanted dry clothes! EVERYTHING was damp....the bed sheets, towels, your clothes. Even the dining room napkins were damp! I'll never go back during rainy season!

As to which resort...I have to go with CCV. AKR is very nice but I don't like climbing all those stairs to the dining room or walking up-downhill so much because of bad knees. Also if your require a night life and/or entertainment or if you have kids, AKR may be the better choice. CCV was designed BY divers FOR divers. It's an adult resort and children aren't encouraged, which is another reason alot of folks prefer it. You'll be treated as a responsible adult diver who doesn't need their hand held.
 
Dee once bubbled...
That's the middle of rainy season in Roatan. My first trip down there was at the end of October and it rained 24/7 the whole week we were there. The only effect on the diving was lower vis than normal but out of the water it was miserable. Yes, I spent most of my day in the water but when I did get through with those 4-6 dives a day I wanted dry clothes! EVERYTHING was damp....the bed sheets, towels, your clothes. Even the dining room napkins were damp! I'll never go back during rainy season!

As to which resort...I have to go with CCV. AKR is very nice but I don't like climbing all those stairs to the dining room or walking up-downhill so much because of bad knees. Also if your require a night life and/or entertainment or if you have kids, AKR may be the better choice. CCV was designed BY divers FOR divers. It's an adult resort and children aren't encouraged, which is another reason alot of folks prefer it. You'll be treated as a responsible adult diver who doesn't need their hand held.
 
undercurrent just ran a couple of pieces on some pretty unnerving problems with people getting sick at coco with some intestinal condition causing them to miss several diving days. it seems to be a rather common occurrence at coco and other resorts do not have the problem. there have also been complaints about sewage smell. apparently coco has been trying to address the issue unsuccessfully for a year or so and now is in denial mode. i have never been there but just wanted to share what i read. undercurrent tends to be a very reliable source.
if you are tempted by the shore diving you may want to look into fantasy island just across from coco. exact same shore dives and since the ownership changed good reviews on this board.
 
I read one story where a group of canadians on the mainland got very sick...and the other part of their group at cocoview (that did not get sick) was evacuated with them since they were all on the same charter flight. Other than that, I have read NO reports of anybody at Cocoview getting sick. I HAVE read several recent trip reports for cocoview by numerous sources who make no mention of having any intestinal problems whatsoever.

I keep hearing that there have been reports of it, but haven't yet heard directly from somebody who was there. This may be the same "I heard about..." affliction that is going on with Fantasy Island with regards to the previous owners and still goes on today in some places with Bay Islandws Beach Resort. It seems like somebody says something once and it keeps getting repeated regardless of any real first hand knowledge. I was guilty of it here in my lack of recent knowledge of FI, and I don't doubt that the same may be happening with CCV.
 
What I saw in that article was two things. It named one diver by name and his claim of 75% infection. It also claimed another report of 31 of 36 divers by an unnamed source. It also claimed there were numerous reports all over the net about the problem. Every report I have read (and I regularly peruse three different major scuba boards) cited the undercurrent article as the source and had several people posting after it saying "we just got back and had no problems". I could cite four named sources from trip reports just from the last month that have come back saying nobody was sick...does that make me a more reliable source than Undercurrent since I have twice as many sources? Not necessarily.

Also the undercurrent article made a statement to the effect that since this wasn't happening at any other resort, it must be a CCV problem. However they never cited any evidence that it wasn't happening elsewhere. It may just be that CCV divers tend to be more hardcore and are more active in posting info to dive communities that has bought them this attention. That could certainly be tracked by the number of trip reports from CCV compared to ones from AKR and FI here and at RSD. However, Undercurrent chose not to share that information, so I take the statement with a grain of salt. Based on my informal survey of the past month or so, I have read two reports for FI, about 6 for CCV, and one for AKR..mine. I also dispute the assertion that CCV is in "denial". If they were in denial, they would be claiming the problem doesn't exist. They admit it has existed and even documented past occurrences not cited by Undercurrent. They say what steps they have taken to try to combat it and even have invited guests who have an interest to inspect things for themselves. I am not sure what Undercurrent wanted CCV to say about the issue..."don't come here, you will get sick"???...they appeared open and honest about it, and in the absence of scientific testing of the system, I am not sure what else they could be doing. They are already providing bottled water (as is done all over cozumel).

That being said, I am not doubting the source in Undercurrent, but suggesting that maybe the "widespread" nature of the complaints might be a bit exaggerated, and the add-on affect of people citing the undercurrent story might be overstating the problem.

Just as a scientist, I see two things here that make me wonder about the periodic source of the mysterious affliction. First is the knowledge that overchlorination of drinking water will cause symptoms that are indistinguishable by non-medical personnel from those of turista. If they were adding too much chlorine for a period of time then adjusted it, it would explain the sudden disappearance. I was at a resort several years ago where the people we met who were leaving told us to be careful because they had been sick all week and so had everybody else. When we asked the manager where we could obtain bottled water, she admitted to us after the others left that she had figured out that the water was being overchlorinated and that the water should be fine now. We trusted her and had no problems, nor did anybody else there that week.

Also, it sounds like the months in question are the rainy season, and it is entirely possible that the rise in groundwater levels caused by long periods of rainfall could bring septic tank sewage or sewage from places up the hill from CCV into places where CCV divers could be exposed. This might also explain the smell.

I don't know the answer to who is right or wrong, but I do know that directing somebody to avoid CCV because of this issue that may or may not even be an issue right now is just as misleading as me citing several year old information and telling people FI is run down and their boats break down alot. It is one thing to cite an article describing an issue, its quite another to make unsubstantiated comments without any personal knowledge of the situation. The comments I am referring to are "it seems to be a rather common occurrence at coco and other resorts do not have the problem", (it was common for two groups according to the article, with no information showing it to be any more widespread than that and no indication that it WASNT happening elsewhere) or "apparently coco has been trying to address the issue unsuccessfully for a year or so and now is in denial mode" (they say it went from Oct to Jan, which is about 4 months, and even if it continues now is only a 7 month span. I haven't seen ANY recent reports of problems, so how can you say they were unsuccessful??).

I am all for open discussion of resorts, but if you haven't been there, have no first hand knowledge, and are basing all of what you are saying on one article (regardless of how much you trust them), you might want to be a little more circumspect in how forcefully you make a recommendation to another diver.

Aggiediver
 
dear aggiediver,

don't get all aggievated! i stated clearly in my post that i have never been to coco and, therefore, have no first hand knowledge and am only sharing something i READ. all i wanted and did was to make a fellow diver on this board aware of the article by undercurrent, a respected diving publication, and summing up some of the statements in the article. after all it does raise some questions. how is that directing someone away from coco??? i am not trying to direct anyone away from coco. anyone can read or not read the article and make up their mind. why would i care if they decided for or against coco?

now i don't doubt that you are a well read scuba afficionada (perusing 3 scubaboards and all) but maybe i may still humbly point out a couple of things. you know of 4 "named sources" from trip reports. how is that twice as many sources as undercurrent? do you know what undercurrent is? they collect trip reports from their 15,000+ members and publish them annually (among other things). what makes you think they only got 2 reports about this problem? having been a subscriber for the past 4 years i can assure you that every year they have plenty of roatan reports on coco, fantasy island, akr.

furthermore, you seem to take issue that i say the problem seems to be a little more widespread and coco is apparently in denial. again, it is quite clear in my post that i am talking about an article. and this is what the article states. undercurrent reports that it is an ongoing problem and that the coco management does not admit it. if you don't like the article then write undercurrent a letter but don't get all upset with me. i did not write the article. you seem to be a little confused about this point.

also, what do you mean "I haven't seen ANY recent reports of problems, so how can you say they were unsuccessful??)" sounds a bit grandiose for my taste. i guess that YOU have not seen any does not necessarily mean that there are not any. again, all I am saying is that undercurrent writes they were unsuccessful and, according to them, this is based on several reports. Undercurrent collects these reports for a living. maybe some of the ignorant subscribers did not realize they should have sent you their report, too.

okay, enough of this. the bottom line: i find your advice to be "more circumspect in how forcefully i make a recommendation to another diver" completely out of place. i did not recommend anything forcefully. i only pointed out what someone else wrote in an article. i made it crystal clear that i had no first hand knowledge ("i have never been there but just wanted to share what i read"). someone asked for information on coco and might find this article helpful. i understand you don't agree with the article for numerous reasons and assume you probably spent wonderful diving vacations at coco. great. just say so. but don't take issue with me for sharing what a diving publication reports. just like you, any reader can make up his mind as to the credibility of the source and reported facts. i assume on this board we don't have to get your approval for what articles may be helpful or not.

enjoy your memorial day weekend
 
We can agree to disagree on how well documented the article was...they cited two reports from several months ago in their article, I have seen four in the last month who said differently.

In any case, I apologize if I jumped you. I have never been to CCV, but know many people who have. My comment on the problem being solved is that I have seen NO reports of the problem continuing...and at least four saying they had no problems. To me that is more persuasive than an unsubstantiated statement (the article does not state why they believe the problem is ongoing other than disputing the viral explanation) in an article relying on reports that were months old.

My reason for getting heated about this stems from my observation of the mob mentatlity and its effect on a resort. I had a wonderful vacation some years ago at the Bay Islands Beach Resort. I later became aware of these type of online boards and went to read about places I have been. I was quite surprised to repeatedly see people warn people away from BIBR by saying they had "heard" of big problems or unhappy trips. When I asked them to explain the basis of the complaints, nobody could tell me what was wrong with BIBR, only that "they had heard that people had bad experiences". We have all seen people provide trip reports where they clearly had a poor attitude and an event on their vacation clearly soured their entire attitude about a place. We normally take these reports with a grain of salt, understanding that there may be more to the story than we know. However, based on the fact that nobody could tell me what was wrong with BIBR, I realized there was clearly a mob mentality where the "pass the secret" game was out of control. Everybody "knew to avoid the place" but nobody knew why they were avoiding it. I am not saying there wasn't a problem or bad experiences, just that there were lots of people repeating the warning who had no clue why they were avoiding the place.

Knowing how many really happy and devoted repeat customers CCV has, I refuse to accept based on one article citing two reports (if they had more reports themselves, why not identify a number...if they only cite two, I am assuming thats all they had), that we should be warning divers away. You were right to bring the subject up to the diver, but I guess we will just have to disagree on how forcefully your opinion was stated.

Thanks for the discussion and sorry again if i jumped you too hard in response.

AggieDiver
 
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