alternate air source donation

[oreocookie]

First, some background: I'm currently doing a rescue diver class. There are 2 instructors teaching the class, who I'll call instructor A and instructor B. Instructor A, at least occasionally, dives with a bp/w and long hose configuration (though he hasn't been using it in the pool cause he doesn't want to wreck his rig), while I'm fairly certain instructor B never has. One of the students in the class has a bp/w and long hose because he intends to do tech eventually, but has been using rental gear in the pool for the same reason as instructor A.

For our first pool session, instructor A was absent, so instructor B was reviewing self-rescue techniques, including donating the alternate to your buddy. Future-tech-student wanted to hold out his octo (remember he's using a rental with standard hoses in the pool) to his buddy as he would do if he were to donate his primary on a long hose. Instructor B insisted that you just make it obviously to your buddy where the octo is and let them grab it. Her logic was that if you hold it out to them there might be fumbling with it and since your buddy has signaled OOA, they're in control and know what they want, no fumbling necessary.

In this week's pool session, there was donating to a diver who isn't your buddy. Here, instructor B demonstrates holding the octo out to the diver so they you can maintain a bit of distance. Instructor A was in the pool this week and showed how to hold the reg by the hose so the recipient can purge it (which is exactly how future-tech-student wanted to do it in pool session 1), and explained how long hose donation works for the benefit of the other students.

So here's my question: What is so wrong about holding out the octo to your buddy? Seems to me that if you're holding it out to the them by the hose, it's pretty obvious where it is and there would be just as much fumbling (or as little) as there would be if it was still clipped to the BC. Grab, shove in your mouth and purge, vs grab, pull towards you, shove in your mouth and purge. Am I missing something here?

 

[drdaddy]

Either way - what's the problem?

The o-o-air diver comes up in a panic and grabs whatever he/she can get their hands on - sometimes right out of your mouth. Then I would usually make due with what I have left, unless there was some reason, i.e., they chose a reg from an o-o-tank (doubles).

In the case that I notice or the diver is calmly letting me know that they need air - I give/hand them whatever I deem to be the best choice and we go up together, with a firm grip on their BC.

 

[Eville]

I went through rescue last week and one point that was hammered home is that panicked divers are dangerous. Letting one get right on top of you can be very dangerous to you. They just might grab the reg out of your mouth and knock your mask off while doing so and then cling on to you for an uncontrolled accent. By handing your reg to them it gives you distance to maintain control. If you need to you can push away. As the rescuer you must make the decisions because the other diver is not going to be thinking clearly. You can't help someone if you let them turn you into a victim too.

 

[spectrum]

I think it's scenario dependent. You can't have your eye on your buddy every instant so who has the upper hand so to speak will vary.

If I was flanking you on the side of your alternate and suddenly found myself in need of air I'd consider snatching your alternate and then make you aware.

On the other hand If I had visibility to a buddy or other diver in need I'd have my alternate by the hose ready for acceptance. In my training we held the actual second stage and presented it actively purging. There may be situations where I'd still do it that way but at least in drills letting the recipient get their hands on the second stage while I hold the stump of the hose seems to be more effective.

If it ever happens you want to have run though all of these possibilities so you can think on your feet. It will not be a drill.

Pete

 

[oreocookie]

I understand why you should hand the octo to an unknown or possibly panicked diver in order to maintain distance. I also understand that if your buddy calmly signals OOA, they'll take your octo wherever it happens to be (if that's what you've discussed). What I don't understand is why the instructor was INSISTING that you DO NOT hold out the octo for your calm buddy, so I'm trying to find out if there might be a reason for that that I don't see.

 

[spectrum]

Based on the logic you outlined in post 1 instructor B lacks imagination. I agree you don't want to get into an arm wrestling match but there are plenty of scenarios where the donor has time to deploy and present the alternate to a converging diver.

Remember that there are virtually no absolutes in diving. If you hear dogma refuse delivery.

Pete

 

[oreocookie]

Based on the logic you outlined in post 1 instructor B lacks imagination. ...
Remember that there are virtually no absolutes in diving. If you hear dogma refuse delivery.

I'm tempted to think you're right about that. She gave me a bad first impression and hasn't really improved upon it. To me, she comes across as "I'm teaching this the way it has to be taught." It's to the point where I've stopped paraphrasing on my Knowledge Reviews because she comes across as if your answer is wrong if it doesn't include every detail on the answer key. Needless to say, I'm sticking closer to instructor A when the class spits into two groups in the pool; I have experience with him (and he definitely earned my trust), feel he's a better instructor and just generally like him better.

 

[Guba]

I've been in about 4 "share air" situations (one taking, the others giving), and I guess I'm just fortunate, but none of those involved were panicked, resorted to grabbing anyone's primary, or made a runaway ascent. In each case the one needing the air approached, signaled what they needed, and the transfer was made. It could just be luck, but I like to think it was the fact that all were adequately trained and were prepared for the eventuality. Of course, I don't discount the possibility that someday I'll meet that diver who is totally out of control (seen that reaction before...I'm an old lifeguard), but I like to think we're ready for that situation as well.

 

[knowone]

Might, be a reasonable idea for Mr OOA to learn where diver dudes
without 360deg vision stash their stuff, to save him sneaking stealthily
up on your six o'clock, and posting a reg requisition up in your crack

 

[*dave*]

What I don't understand is why the instructor was INSISTING that you DO NOT hold out the octo for your calm buddy, so I'm trying to find out if there might be a reason for that that I don't see.

First, I have to say I really despise the method of passing off the secondary(octo) to an OOA diver. I won't go into detail on this as it's been covered at least a few times in other threads, but I do feel obligated to get that out there.

There are a lot of different methods for securing a secondary and some of them are particular about how they are deployed. I've seen divers zip them in pockets, wrap them around their tank valves or stuff them in a D-Ring. An OOA situation is less than an ideal time for the OOA diver to be figuring these things out. This alone makes active donation a better method in theory. In reality, the best method is the one that gets you both to the surface.

I say make it easy for the OOA diver. If you are going to be donating the secondary, you should be able to access it as readily as your right butt cheek. Deploy it and present it.

The thought of an OOA diver groping me for my alternate gives me the heebeejeebees.