Alternate Second Stage Quality

[Genesis]

1. Your BC's inflator hose is long enough to reach your mouth easily.

AND

2. Your BC has MULTIPLE, ACCESSIBLE DUMPS and you have to rely on NEITHER the inflator dump OR the shoulder attached to the corrugated hose to dump air on ascent.

THEN the Air2 is acceptable.

On a Scubapro Knighthawk, for example, it has a RIGHT shoulder dump, a RIGHT bottom dump, AND a corrugated dump (in addition to the regular inflator button dump)

It is therefore ok, IMHO, to use with an Air2.

However, a BC that has no top dump on the right side is potentially dangerous to use with an Air2. You may have to remove the Air2 from your mouth to make a BC air adjustment, or you my have to pull on the corrugated hose (which I DO NOT LIKE as a dump anyway - putting that kind of stress on a BC is not a good idea, and if the hose or elbow separates you'll find out why!)

I had an Air2. I sold it. It was a perfectly-acceptably breathing reg (pretty much like an R190), but I moved from a regular BC to a BP+Wing and was pretty-much assimilated

 

[Rice]

I think some are making more of the "differences" between modern regs.

In my examination of the Rodales review in October I saw a lot of cheap regs score very well. It' sa testament to the industry that there are so amny ways to build a reg and get effectivley the same performance.

Personally, I want a second stage eith a simpler, more robust mechanism for my octo. It's true that the difference might be noticeable if you try to see it, hell, the octo might be better in tune from not being used so much!

I'm also thinking that the "overbreathing issue might be limited by your first stage and less by your second, an issue that might be exacerbated by two divers using it. i'm looking forward to when regs are reviewed first and second stages seperatley and we can go chose what is best.
(I understand there might be synergystic effects but it's all hardware to me and my shop sells them in whatever combo I want)
HTH,
Rice

 

[Wreck/Tec]

We've seen this before. Not every one will agree, much less can afford a second regulator of the same type or quality. As for Air 2s, I have stated earlier, in my opinion, Air 2s are of questionable ( I'm being kind )value in emergency situations. With respect to regulators that are of lesser quality or used infrequently.........
Think about it! If you have an octo that's not used often, if at all, not to mention the quality is such that you have dought about it's reliability under a demanding situation ( an emergency ) that should raise a red flag. Inattention to performance, simply put not useing and confirming it's reliability is foolish if not dangerous. As for a regulator of lesser quality. There have been times I've asked alot of a regulator. Getting to the surface is only half of your problem. You still have to reach a boat or land. What if conditions aren't ideal from depth to the end of this ordeal? In a nut shell, if I wanted air I'd want as good a reg as I could get. Free from debris, not damaged, of respectable quality, easy to use with out compounding problems or compromiseing my saftey or a partners. There are a number of threads about your liability with respect to a dive partner. I can't help but think that you could be held accountable for questionable choices in equipment as well. This discussion about an extra $200.00 may look like a bargain if you end up in court, or someone dies. Don't wait for an example or test to make up your mind!

 

[Rice]

How about using a more robust and simpler design that is less likeley to have problems if it's full of grit or scums from not being used?

My thinking is that (scubapro examples) an older very reliable and proven design like a downstream valve in R190 or 380 is going to bemore robust in a situation that it's rarely(seriously) used. Compare the valve design with a S600 that's designed for high performance and low cracking resistance and it really seems to me that for a backup reg i'd have to pick the one with simpler innards.

I'm willing to bet that a r190 wouldn't do very badly on a test bench with a mk25 attached to it.

My review of rodales tests seemed to say that they REALLY had to Split hairs to pick the regs thay liked best.

Just count how many regs had excellent bench scores and no problems. hell, they only singled out ONE reg as unnacceptable.

Does it really make you feel that much better to spend more money if the two regs breathe the same?

ps, I'm sure you clean your regs out perfectly after each dive. I'm just writing generally.

 

[MechDiver]

Gorji once bubbled...
Is Air2 an option?


Hand the primary reg over, grab teh air 2 and go for the surface

That is not always an option.

Also, one of the biggest problems with the Air2 style of alternate is people forget they are a regulator. Those who studiously rinse and clean their regs, take off the BC, dunk it (maybe), then forget about it. Then they can't understand why the Air2 freeflows or all the buttons stick.

Phil

 

[MechDiver]

Rice once bubbled...
How about using a more robust and simpler design that is less likeley to have problems if it's full of grit or scums from not being used?

My thinking is that (scubapro examples) an older very reliable and proven design like a downstream valve in R190 or 380 is going to bemore robust in a situation that it's rarely(seriously) used. Compare the valve design with a S600 that's designed for high performance and low cracking resistance and it really seems to me that for a backup reg i'd have to pick the one with simpler innards.

I'm willing to bet that a r190 wouldn't do very badly on a test bench with a mk25 attached to it.

My review of rodales tests seemed to say that they REALLY had to Split hairs to pick the regs thay liked best.

Just count how many regs had excellent bench scores and no problems. hell, they only singled out ONE reg as unnacceptable.

Does it really make you feel that much better to spend more money if the two regs breathe the same?

ps, I'm sure you clean your regs out perfectly after each dive. I'm just writing generally.

I "generally" disagree. I have some R190s, as well as G250 and G500s. The R190s, although nice, do not come close to breathing as well as either of the other two. And that is using the same first stage. I use them for deco stages, and they would serve well as an alternate. That I will agree with you.

Phil