An Interesting Lesson

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GDI

Artificer of Havoc & Kaos
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I'm a Fish!
Just finished a cave class with a couple of students and I must say that the class was very enjoyable. First of all let me congratrulate Jeff Toorish and Vickie Bashor - FULL CAVE :)

After reading the thread of a recent experience of another class in Florida this past week I will leave it up to my students to disclose their experiences. Let the slaughter begin:eyebrow:

There are many determining factors that a instructor uses to evaluate the success or failure of a student. Attitude is one. This in itself can be simply a difference of opinion between the student and instructor but if the student is considered unsafe both to themselves and the cave then they will not make it. Straight Up a bad attitude = FAIL

Skill level can be another and physical skill is often considered the most common, yet skill does come in many forms. It is obvious that if a student cannot control their movements causing silting in the cave, routinely places their hands down in the clay, always fouls a reel and has a poor awareness factor, gas management, equipment protocols, problem solving and decission making abilities they should realize and expect the instructor just might not pass them.

Some of these (skills) can be developed quickly - others not so.

The physical skills may need not be text book perfect, if a student demonstrates a consistency and improvement as long as they are not a danger to themselves, their team members and of course the CAVE. They may pass the class. I have had students whom had great physical skills go away with nothing because their mental capacity and appreciation for cave diving was lacking. On the same token I have had students whom lacked text book skill - pass.

In developing some of these attributes in my students I can tell you some of them have had a rough beginning, very scary in fact. With students like this it may take time to work them or it may just take the correct and truthful response of saying No Not Today Go Practice These Things and Come Back Later.

No two divers are alike and each may require different training methods to achieve the expected results. A diver who having less then text book skills with the correct mental attitude will become a great text book diver in practicing the art of safe cave diving.
I use my own start into the sport as a guiding referrence, a teacher who forgets their beginnings and does not apply their lessons learned will not mentor very well.

Enough said on that: Now back to one of the most interesting days of diving I have had in a long time. What are the odds of a day like today.

It was Saturday 17 March 07 and we were at Orange Grove the plan was to do simply do a nice long swim dive traverse to Challenge. As a break to the students and so as to keep my own skills sharp I decided to run the main reel. Since my preferred choice primary light needed some charge time I decided to use one of my other primary cannisters. The dive team consisted of two students and a fellow certified cave diver/OWSI. With the briefing complete we headed down into the water. S-Drill called out, cylinders matched, leak check and air share. All looked good for just a nice easy dive for a near end course swim.
During the dive, right near the end by Challenge The second diver's primary light failed. Their secondaries soon followed suit one by one out they went. Were these the same lights that during the S-Drill seemed to work fine? Yes they were!. So now an exiting reel was placed at Challenge and the team following a safety stop surfaced. As with any post dive we critique each other. (For those who need to know I offer myself up for critique as well, I am not exempt from needing improvement)

So now sitting in the water resting we have a delima? What do we do about the diver with two lights out and a intermittent primary. My own primary was working but it even dimmed alittle. Do we swim back with the chance of a complete light failure and one diver in the dark? Do we redistribute lights and swim back? Or do we thank GOD that we are breathing air and have a exit point?

I pointed out to the students to look at the surroundings and to think about options???:eyebrow: Whatever decission made we would do it as a team all in agreement. I even added the statement that if the students made a choice that had a higher then average risk and a additional failure occurred they would fail the class. Pending the decission we recalculated the thirds for a possible return trip.

Now sitting neck deep in water surrounded by alligators is not the time to remember that you were tasked to drain the swamp that day

I wanted the students to think and solve this issue in what would be the most logical safest way.

Ok so a decission was made, YUP! we was a going to climb out of Challenge sink. AND why not we had air and a means to safely exit. I climbed out first and went back to get a vehicle and a rope.
Yes, Thats right we lifted the doubles out of the hole and loaded them onto the truck. Later I confessed I would tell my students that I coulds have just as easily brought back some additional lights and we could have swim back to Orange Grove. But it would not have been as much fun to do that!:rofl3:

The lesson here is that when in a cave crap happens and there may not always be the easy way to exit some times. BUT any exit that you can walk away and learn from is GOOD.

We took a three hour surface interval and fixed the lights and went back to pull the first primary reel and retrieve our O2.

As a point of note we ran a second reel back in at Challenge using it to pull the exiting reel out (application of the Continuous Guideline to the Open Water Rule)

At the end of it all, all divers were safe and no one exposed themselves unnecessarily to the overhead in a reduced equipment capacity.

Now I have to say if there was to be some justice to it all I lost an Atomic mask somewhere on the road between the Gate to Peacock Springs State park, the Orange Grove parking lot and the Challenge Sink.

We did a third dive that day in Telford. and that was interesting as well But thats another story.........

(Edit: just as a note for those out there in SB waters this was not a drill it was an actuall light failure)
 
Got your PM and I added an edit to the bottom of the post.

This failure was not a drill
 
GDI:
Ok so a decission was made, YUP! we was a going to climb out of Challenge sink. AND why not we had air and a means to safely exit. I climbed out first and went back to get a vehicle and a rope.
Yes, Thats right we lifted the doubles out of the hole and loaded them onto the truck. Later I confessed I would tell my students that I coulds have just as easily brought back some additional lights and we could have swim back to Orange Grove. But it would not have been as much fun to do that!:rofl3:

Great story! I have to say, though, that if you had come back with lights instead of a truck and rope, I would have sent you back for the truck and rope. With a primary and some backups failing, I wouldn't have wanted to continue that dive, even with fresh lights.
 
As a member of that team, I can say this was one of the most memorable dives ever for me. Of course, Rick's casual "...we lifted the doubles out of the hole and loaded them onto the truck..." sort of glosses over a two hour ordeal hauling several sets of doubles out of a 30 foot hole. :D

There was more to this most interesting day, but I'll wait to write a full report when I get a chance. It will be worth your reading, I promise. :wink:

As to the training itself, I know there is another thread about a cave diving training experience that did not go as well for at least the student. This once again illustrates the importance of what so many members of this board constantly and consistantly remind others, it is not the agency or the program, it is the instructor.

Rick certainly does not hold back in his constructive criticism, and the debriefing sessions can be tough. But that is exactly what we need in this type of training. By the same token, much of the debriefing is done by the students to one another, and some of the most pointed comments can come that way; again completely appropriate, effective and helpful.

I believe cave instructors must balance the clear safety issues involved with the most effective method of reinforcing information to specific students. Fortunately, Rick does exactly that, which is why his students are so clearly loyal to him and why they effectively learn. For me, this is the most intensive training of any kind, including flight training, skydiving and boot camp.

I'll quickly thank Rick again in this thread for all the work he's done for me and go into greater detail when I write my own report.

...to be continued...:rofl3:

Jeff
 
jtoorish:
Rick certainly does not hold back in his constructive criticism, and the debriefing sessions can be tough.

Oh no, he certainly does not. And I liked it.
We have a saying in Polish (among youngsters mainly) - you have to be tough not soft....
:D

Talkimg about debriefing among students. I was the only student but Rick loved "cat's fights" we had with Linda (his assistant during my course). Which were not very serious but sometimes....

:D
Mania
 
mania:
Oh no, he certainly does not. And I liked it.
We have a saying in Polish (among youngsters mainly) - you have to be tough not soft....
:D

Talkimg about debriefing among students. I was the only student but Rick loved "cat's fights" we had with Linda (his assistant during my course). Which were not very serious but sometimes....

:D
Mania

Mania,

Yes, your name came up once or twice in training...always in the kindest terms.

Jeff
 
Yeah, what he said, what's up with the backups??

Was the voltage on the backup batteries checked that morning?
Alkalines, right?
Battery age relevant, been in there a long time?
Where these halogen or LED?
Flooded?
Checked for on and off during gear check?
Brand, age, etc. of light?

Inquiring minds wanna know what's the deal with the backup failures.

Thanks,
RJ

ps fantastic story, thanks for sharing
 
jtoorish:
There was more to this most interesting day, but I'll wait to write a full report when I get a chance. It will be worth your reading, I promise. :wink:

...to be continued...:rofl3:

Jeff

Hey Jeff - Congrats on the Full Cave!!!!

Of course I hear you were staying only 2 miles from us and what - no hello:confused:

Can't wait for the write up - and after a few more cavern dives I will throw myself under the bus :D and take the intro-to-cave/full cave class from Rick - I'm sure he will be ready for a little more humor :rofl3: when that day comes around.....

Mania - when are you coming back over to this side of the pond?

edit - this is a much better student/instructor thread than the other one that was mentioned

Cheers

Steve
 
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