Anyone tried out the Chinese Compressors

[IyaDiver]

Guys,

I am not saying Chinese products are all inferior but many are, when the product involved precision machining and high grade mettalurgy.

In my country there used to be like 20 chinese motorbike brands and now only like 2 in a span of just 5 years.

My staff who bought them are having reliability problems. Most are copy of Honda, so most will take Honda parts. In the end, a Honda is cheaper in 5 years of ownership & maintenance plus all the break down of the Chinese copy and final resale value. Resale value of Chinese bikes goes down the drain, right the next day of purchased.

The same case with residential diesel generators. Chinese ones are cheap but they dont last like the Yanmar based or Kubota based engines or John Deere. Parts is a problem too if model exceeded 3 years old. The model changed so fast ( maybe the suppliers ), importers do not want to keep stock of parts.

Its is true the accuracy of machining is bad and the mettalurgy is still way behind European, because many products are made not in modern factories but many are made by sort of home industries.

There are some good Chinese products but I do not know if compressor is one of them. For cars and bikes, very few in my country will buy them now. For cheap electronics...hell yeah, go get them boy.

Even the popular Italian Coltri, and I am not putting Coltri down, but price for price of a 7CFM/200 Ltr model compared to Bauer and 10 years heavy user application and in the end reselling it and calculate all the $$ spent and the breakdown headache, a Coltri can't beat a Bauer. This is based on what is going on in my country, in rather severe duty places like Bali.

For very low duty application maybe the Chinese compressor will do decent.

The high pressure vessel like the filter housing I will worry a lot. German TUV is very strict on such pressure vessel and that is good for buyers. Even for all German made high end airguns using scuba charged air, is now limiting their air reservoir to 10 years life, where as the British made and the Korean made ones seems not to indicate maximum service life.

There is a Chinese scuba tank manufacturer I read somewhere in DOT list, that already has DOT approval. However, so far no one in my country dared to import them. Luxfer and Catalina rule here...Luxfer is the king though.

Surely in many years to come, any products with global appeal will be produced in China with improved quality and beware all other manufacturers.

Iya

 

[ti325v]

bump up !

 

[h90]

Guys,

I am not saying Chinese products are all inferior but many are, when the product involved precision machining and high grade mettalurgy.

In my country there used to be like 20 chinese motorbike brands and now only like 2 in a span of just 5 years.

My staff who bought them are having reliability problems. Most are copy of Honda, so most will take Honda parts. In the end, a Honda is cheaper in 5 years of ownership & maintenance plus all the break down of the Chinese copy and final resale value. Resale value of Chinese bikes goes down the drain, right the next day of purchased.

The same case with residential diesel generators. Chinese ones are cheap but they dont last like the Yanmar based or Kubota based engines or John Deere. Parts is a problem too if model exceeded 3 years old. The model changed so fast ( maybe the suppliers ), importers do not want to keep stock of parts.

Its is true the accuracy of machining is bad and the mettalurgy is still way behind European, because many products are made not in modern factories but many are made by sort of home industries.

There are some good Chinese products but I do not know if compressor is one of them. For cars and bikes, very few in my country will buy them now. For cheap electronics...hell yeah, go get them boy.

Even the popular Italian Coltri, and I am not putting Coltri down, but price for price of a 7CFM/200 Ltr model compared to Bauer and 10 years heavy user application and in the end reselling it and calculate all the $$ spent and the breakdown headache, a Coltri can't beat a Bauer. This is based on what is going on in my country, in rather severe duty places like Bali.

For very low duty application maybe the Chinese compressor will do decent.

The high pressure vessel like the filter housing I will worry a lot. German TUV is very strict on such pressure vessel and that is good for buyers. Even for all German made high end airguns using scuba charged air, is now limiting their air reservoir to 10 years life, where as the British made and the Korean made ones seems not to indicate maximum service life.

There is a Chinese scuba tank manufacturer I read somewhere in DOT list, that already has DOT approval. However, so far no one in my country dared to import them. Luxfer and Catalina rule here...Luxfer is the king though.

Surely in many years to come, any products with global appeal will be produced in China with improved quality and beware all other manufacturers.

Iya

On high pressure it is always a bit dangerous, But everything depend on the price. If I get a Bauer Junior 2 for 3500 Euro. The Coltri MCH-6 for 1800 (+a modification for 100 Euro) than I am OK if it lasts half the time.
If there is a worse Chinese brand but it costs just 500 Euro than it is also OK if it lasts shorter....
(Bauer is in my opinion far overpriced) and the Coltri not soo bad)

 

[flyingbudda]

A 200 lim/min coltri is $13,000 here in Vietnam. ???? Really.


Try 265 L/M for $10,500 or there about and a 215 L/M for $9800, maybe $12000 if you wanted the Tropical Plus with Hyperfiltration.......

Plus we were willing to offer you a further discount, plus additional items could have been offered including 2 years warranty, guaranteed access to a loan compressor in case of a failure, financing if requested, delivery and Installation, plus support in your local languages English and Vietnamese.

I understand you needed 2 units mate, but no need to bend the facts .!

If these guys are reliable and meet all standards I cant imaging why COLTRI continue to sell container loads of compressors into China each year that end up with the Fire Departments, Navy etc etc.

At least with Coltri / Bauer / L and W you have published and independent testing and reports available on the validity of their claims to meet and maintain breathing air standards, so as long as you maintain the unit and re stock the filters you have a baseline as to what your pumping into your tanks.

Do these guys offer any technical documentation to back up their claim on air purity. I have never heard of these units being approved or endorsed by any organization, government, body, group that they actually meet such standards.

Cheers Scuba Supply Vietnam.

 

[ti325v]

My whoops...
I was basing on a quote for a 265, not the 200, and filtration material for a year.
It was well over $10,000. Of course it was a long time ago, and I no longer have the facts and figures here with me.
They do guarantee EN1201 and have passed that test.
As you know, from me as a customer for many years, pricing from you was never an issue, as the quality of service is very important to me and you have always gone the extra mile, ALWAYS, with no question. I have been your number one supporter in so many arguments you would find it hard to believe.
The fact does remain as we discussed, it was a business decision that I had to make.
I do have two compressors here for $8,500 with filtration material for two years . Both have passed EN1201.
I do not in any way discount the value of your service, and know the value added by that.
Also, your offer of discounts, you know me, I never ask....We have a long history and never once to my knowledge did I ask you for a discount. It is not my way of doing business.
I asked for a quotation on two compressors, discussed consumables...perhaps I should have been directed to you to discuss it.
We have corresponded about this issue privately, and I do understand why you want to clear the air in a public forum.
As you know, I have sent customers your way in the interim, and still desire to keep a professional business relationship with you.
I will certainly contact you directly when it is time to put the compressors and air bank on the boat. I hope at that time we can come to agreeable terms for both parties.
I am sure you know, opening on Con Dao was and is not without risk. With a western visitor count of about 9000 last year, my market is and will be small.
If I get a year from these compressors and throw them away, they have in my mind paid for them selves. I will know there is an established market here, and buying new ones will be of no issue in any way, they will just be cheap back up insurance.
In closing, your points are well made and taken, as I feel my points are well made.
I hope we can continue to work together in the future.
Oh, and fwiw, I went to the factory, got some training for free from them, they have been quite supportive, reasonably responsive, but of course the level of service is nothing like I would have gotten from you.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

My whoops...
I was basing on a quote for a 265, not the 200, and filtration material for a year.
It was well over $10,000. Of course it was a long time ago, and I no longer have the facts and figures here with me.
They do guarantee EN1201 and have passed that test.
As you know, from me as a customer for many years, pricing from you was never an issue, as the quality of service is very important to me and you have always gone the extra mile, ALWAYS, with no question. I have been your number one supporter in so many arguments you would find it hard to believe.
The fact does remain as we discussed, it was a business decision that I had to make.
I do have two compressors here for $8,500 with filtration material for two years . Both have passed EN1201.
I do not in any way discount the value of your service, and know the value added by that.
Also, your offer of discounts, you know me, I never ask....We have a long history and never once to my knowledge did I ask you for a discount. It is not my way of doing business.
I asked for a quotation on two compressors, discussed consumables...perhaps I should have been directed to you to discuss it.
We have corresponded about this issue privately, and I do understand why you want to clear the air in a public forum.
As you know, I have sent customers your way in the interim, and still desire to keep a professional business relationship with you.
I will certainly contact you directly when it is time to put the compressors and air bank on the boat. I hope at that time we can come to agreeable terms for both parties.
I am sure you know, opening on Con Dao was and is not without risk. With a western visitor count of about 9000 last year, my market is and will be small.
If I get a year from these compressors and throw them away, they have in my mind paid for them selves. I will know there is an established market here, and buying new ones will be of no issue in any way, they will just be cheap back up insurance.
In closing, your points are well made and taken, as I feel my points are well made.
I hope we can continue to work together in the future.
Oh, and fwiw, I went to the factory, got some training for free from them, they have been quite supportive, reasonably responsive, but of course the level of service is nothing like I would have gotten from you.

Just curious, what model of Chinies compressor did you buy.
ZDD

 

[flyingbudda]

Never a problem mate, never a problem..... I understand all that and respect that and of course we are here to support you.......

I am privy to a private test done on these compressors recently and tests were run on it with the included filtration, the compressor failed to fill to EN breathing standards within 5 cylinders don't worry as a P21 in our heat does just that after about 7 fills however ..... after a second filter was replaced it actually failed on the second filter. THATS STRANGE, i would keep an eye on the moisture in your sieve, as soon as that's wet ,,, repack.

Although they look like Coltri's on closer examination there is very little similarities, certainly with functions like the PMV and the filtration tower, the designs seem a little strange considering the fact that both Bauer and Coltri have made constant changes to the way this part works over the years it appears that these guys have gone with something totally obscure, this can effect filter life dramatically and a bad setup can render a filter cartridge useless after just a very short time.

Certainly there are very few parts that could be considered interchangeable as the tolerances and the materials used would make that a bad idea to use anything other then the parts from the OEM.

The other concern that was noticed is the cycle life of the HP vessels, these would be of a major concern to anyone using these units.

Certainly on internal inspection of the bearings and shaft they have not headed lessons learned by the bog boys and gone with lower grade and obsolete bearing configurations, they have also gone with bolts and other hardware that are not compatible with these types of HP and High heat units.....

In my humble opinion I don't see these being a massive threat to the European made units for a number of reasons, firstly these types of units are not a mass production item like Tyre compressors or TV's or DVD players, i think the assembly costs are far outweighed by the cost of the raw materials, the R & D and the ongoing development. If it came down to a cost of construction issue then it would take Bauer or Coltri a small step to open up a machining plant in Bulgaria or Eastern Europe to take advantage of the cheaper labor, they could even open their own plant in China, would they do this..... I don't think so.

There is simply not the mas production required for this type of system to justify moving to China and risking a brand name that has 40 or 50 years of reputation on a single production fault.

As I said in my last post, ships being built in China are not being fitted with these for their SCBA requirements, maybe they can get local fire and navy to use but from what i know of product being shipped into China this is not happening on a mass scale.

With the exception of some poorer less regulated countries I don't see these units as being acceptable in the near future to Navy's, Fire Departments, Regulated Dive Industries........