Artifact Arrest

[Leadking]

I got into this debate years ago with a Ranger friend at Isle Royale. When does it go from trash to treasure?

Never got a straight answer

 

[ageddiver]

Dude, let me get this straight: the THC has no money to pay divers for any information, they have no time/people to do any wreck research, and they also have no money to properly excavate any wrecks. But the state has plenty of money to pay state law enforcement to patrol wreck sites and investigate curious divers, and to pay lawyers and courts to prosecute divers who take anything off of any old crapbox that ever sunk. Does that about sum it up? You must work for the state.

Of course the big sticking point is around the definition of historical. But you're simply taking the head-in-the-sand approach by saying "who's to decide, so we treat them all as historical". And you can stick with that line and not bend and nothing will ever change. As I said before - righteous and clueless.

And your arguments are weak - 2700 wrecks? How many were located last year? 5? That's $1000. And one guy can't separate the wheat from the chaff? BTW, what did the state do with all those muskets? Preserve them and display in a museum, or stick them in a dirty basement? My guess is the latter, and the other writer was right. You talk about about a partnership, but you tear up any proposals you hear and offer nothing remotely workable.

 

[LVX]

Dude, let me get this straight: the THC has no money to pay divers for any information, they have no time/people to do any wreck research, and they also have no money to properly excavate any wrecks. But the state has plenty of money to pay state law enforcement to patrol wreck sites and investigate curious divers, and to pay lawyers and courts to prosecute divers who take anything off of any old crapbox that ever sunk. Does that about sum it up? You must work for the state.

They do, really - wow,when was the last time in Texas you heard of the shipwreck police giving out a ticket. The only time they might come after you is if they "hear" you have done somethings and then "think" it important enough to take you to court. You comment above sounds like a conspiarcy theory.

Of course the big sticking point is around the definition of historical. But you're simply taking the head-in-the-sand approach by saying "who's to decide, so we treat them all as historical". And you can stick with that line and not bend and nothing will ever change. As I said before - righteous and clueless.

OK, what is your solution. You are good a saying what is wrong but you have yet to tell me how we decide. You just simply stated it was wrong and that we need to setup a system but you have yet to offer a solution.

And your arguments are weak - 2700 wrecks? How many were located last year? 5? That's $1000. And one guy can't separate the wheat from the chaff? BTW, what did the state do with all those muskets? Preserve them and display in a museum, or stick them in a dirty basement? My guess is the latter, and the other writer was right. You talk about about a partnership, but you tear up any proposals you hear and offer nothing remotely workable.

You would be wrong, many are in the Bob Bullock Museum here in Austin and several others are at A & M and being used for analysis. And as far as your proposal, I do agree. I am simply asking you how you decide what is historical and you totally ignored it and still have not given a response about it. Let me know. How do you determine what is historical. You are good are arguing but not at offering solutions.

And, how does one separate the wheat from the chaff. I must have missed that class. Are you saying the State Marine Archaeologist should just believe what the divers are saying and give them out the money before every looking at the wreck site. So, if you go out and find a shrimpboat and say it is a historical wreck the archaeologist is just supposed to believe you, pay you and then start his/ her research only to find it is a shrimp boat.

 

[fire_diver]

You just simply stated it was wrong and that we need to setup a system but you have yet to offer a solution.

Yes he did! Diver finds wreck. Diver reports wreck. State archie investigates wreck. Archie submits report to historical society. Determination is made as to whether this wreck has significance to history of world, USA, or Texas. Wreck is protected for state excavation or is turned back over to diver to loot and piliage the sunked garbage scow as he/she sees fit. Pretty damn simple, but no archie will EVER agree to it, because they think it all belongs to them.

I am simply asking you how you decide what is historical and you totally ignored it and still have not given a response about it. Let me know. How do you determine what is historical. You are good are arguing but not at offering solutions.

That is the job of the archies. but its pretty damn simple. "while this ship was floating on the ocean, did it partake in any action that had a significant impact on the history of a nation?" answer no, and turn that thing back to the divers.

And, how does one separate the wheat from the chaff. I must have missed that class.

Must not be much of an archie if you cant determine if an object is important to history or not.

Are you saying the State Marine Archaeologist should just believe what the divers are saying and give them out the money before every looking at the wreck site. So, if you go out and find a shrimpboat and say it is a historical wreck the archaeologist is just supposed to believe you, pay you and then start his/ her research only to find it is a shrimp boat.

Wow, you really do have your head in the sand. Nothing like that was ever stated. The statement was to pay the diver a "finders fee". How many thousands did that diver save the state in serching for that particular wreck? The diver doesnt say whether its historic, thats the job of the archie. Yes, the state is responsible for finding out whether or not "its a shrimp boat". If the state dont want to, the wreck is fair game.

 

[2Tours N Iraq`]

As a believer in smaller government, I feel it is up to local and state agencies, archeys, and local wreck divers clubs to come to an agreement on what constitutes historical. Also, I don't think there should be a flat rate finders fee (say $200) as if a wreck is deemed historical and the wreck has millions of $$ worth of artifacts on it then the finder should get a percentage paid for by the STATE, not come out of the historical agency's budget as it is vastly underfunded. If a wreck is deemed to not be of historical value then the finder's fee paid is the wreck itself. I would agree that most divers are proud of their find and would seek out to properly preserve their artifacts if they weren't afraid of being prosecuted. By having the entire community who could benefit coming to a consensus on the STATE definition of historical value everyone wins. The state doesn't have to spend the millions of $$ associated with finding and investigating a wreck and the divers don't have to fear prosecution. The one exception I (personally) think should be for war ships sunk as a result of combat. They should only be dived to determine the proper identy of the wreck then left alone as it should be deemed a grave sight, regardless of which side of whatever war it was on. Just my humble opinion and I am open to changing my opinion based on a common consensus between all involved parties.

 

[fire_diver]

Hey 2T, what is your MOS? You have so much internet access over there, I would guess you are commo, but that's just a guess. I think my units time-table for deployment has been bumped up (big increase in training days early this year). But the commander keeps saying he knows nothing. LOL they ALWAYS say that.


FD (11B E6, soon to be 31B)

 

[ItsBruce]

Would I be out of place complaining that the authorities raised the boat that recently sank in its slip. It was an old beat up boat and I say it should have been left in place for its historical value.

 

[phoneman]

I live in the N. E. part of Fl. where you could say there is alot of historic sites to see but none that I know of in the water. However you can be sure that if pass thru one of the local inlets and the wildlife officers thinks you my have taken something from the bottom your in for a rough time.You could float a barge load of junk from the bottom of the sea thru that same inlet tell them you the friends of the spotted green sea owl or some such nonsense and you can go on your way. Now take the most worthless piece of junk from that barge put it on your boat with dive gear visable when you pass thru the inlet and you are in for a day at court. Now for grins and giggles try just riding around the inlet with your dive gear and a metal detector displayed where all can see. I know of no one who is brave enough to try this but I could guess what would happen. Why?

P.S. Yes spotted green sea owl tastes alot like chicken

 

[diverjed]

I live in the N. E. part of Fl. where you could say there is alot of historic sites to see but none that I know of in the water. However you can be sure that if pass thru one of the local inlets and the wildlife officers thinks you my have taken something from the bottom your in for a rough time.You could float a barge load of junk from the bottom of the sea thru that same inlet tell them you the friends of the spotted green sea owl or some such nonsense and you can go on your way. Now take the most worthless piece of junk from that barge put it on your boat with dive gear visable when you pass thru the inlet and you are in for a day at court. Now for grins and giggles try just riding around the inlet with your dive gear and a metal detector displayed where all can see. I know of no one who is brave enough to try this but I could guess what would happen. Why?

P.S. Yes spotted green sea owl tastes alot like chicken

I've lived in NE Florida for about 6 months now, but what is the diver scoope concerning the missing ship from the hurricane of 1715? If any? Supposed to be near Jacksonville somewhere...

 

[diversmarts]

Tell ya what.......I'll look for it and let you know.

WAit....no I won't!

My treasure is there!