Asthma/depression - BUT I WANT TO DIVE

[avenger79]

or a diver who knew tech diving was going to be THEIR THING freaked out when they realized they had a virtual overhead and could NOT go to the surface.... This happens a lot. Not all the time by any means, but more than one might think.

Just my 2 cents. FWIW.

without hijacking this thread too much could you explain that tech dive/virtual overhead? I have seen tech dive term thrown around a lot and wondered what it was.

 

[boulderjohn]

without hijacking this thread too much could you explain that tech dive/virtual overhead? I have seen tech dive term thrown around a lot and wondered what it was.

In the simplest of definitions, the difference between recreational/sport diving and technical diving is that on a technical dive, there will be a time when the diver cannot go to the surface in the case of an emergency the way a recreational/sport diver can. There is either a hard overhead (cave roof or ship deck, for example) or a virtual/soft overhead between the diver and the surface. A virtual overhead is a decompression obligation. The diver has been down too deep and too long to go directly to the surface without serious danger of decompression sickness.

 

[lv2dive]

In a cave it is obvious you can't ascend directly to the surface as there is a physical overhead environment - it tech diving, you have a decompression obligation that prevents you from ascending to the surface without getting bent; a "virtual" overhead.

without hijacking this thread too much could you explain that tech dive/virtual overhead? I have seen tech dive term thrown around a lot and wondered what it was.

 

[cogaritis]

Not to sound lame, but Wikipedia "underwater diving" or "commercial diving." These and related articles gave me a good understanding of the different types. I was totally considering sewer diving, gross I know, but someone has to do it and inland diving typically pays more than offshore. But since it's commercial...

Arizona was recommended for people suffering from lung issues - TB, back in the day. Since I've started on Advair, I've not had to use my inhaler once, nor have I triggered an attack. I have tried everything I can think of. The first day of using Advair, my first puff, I mowed my front and back yards, trimmed, and blew. Not to mention pollen falling off of the ash trees like powdered sugar. And what do you know, no issues! None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I'll look into marine biology.

 

[avenger79]

boulder and katepnatl: thanks for the quick responses.

 

[lv2dive]

One can not assume they have a good understanding of anything like scuba diving until they do it. Period. I know multiple people who are great swimmers and love the water, and really wanted to SCUBA, but could not psychologically make the transition to breathing underwater. I am sure some instructors could chime in who have witnessed that countless times more than me.

All I am saying is, IMO it is just a bit premature to make end-goal career plans in a specific direction before one has taken the first step in that direction. I would highly encourage anyone with an interest to take that first step - I would imagine a dr's clearance for discover scuba would not be nearly as difficult as it would be for a commercial diving school!

 

[danvolker]

Not to sound lame, but Wikipedia "underwater diving" or "commercial diving." These and related articles gave me a good understanding of the different types. I was totally considering sewer diving, gross I know, but someone has to do it and inland diving typically pays more than offshore. But since it's commercial...

Arizona was recommended for people suffering from lung issues - TB, back in the day. Since I've started on Advair, I've not had to use my inhaler once, nor have I triggered an attack. I have tried everything I can think of. The first day of using Advair, my first puff, I mowed my front and back yards, trimmed, and blew. Not to mention pollen falling off of the ash trees like powdered sugar. And what do you know, no issues! None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I'll look into marine biology.

Advair may also create some viciously bad side effects. About 10 years ago, my wife Sandra was getting "Sports Asthma", triggered on fast bike rides by cold air on cold days.....The allergy doc she saw first, did the typical knee jerk reaction, and went with Big Pharma to treat the symptoms, and gave her Advair and the inhaler( albuterol)....While this did work.....within a few months, Sandra began getting problems with cramping and knotting of muscles......and on googling known issues of Advair use, I found one of the well known side effects that the "rear end of a donkey of an Allergy Doc" did not consider, was that Advair can cause potassioum and magnesium to be bound up, and your muscles lose key regulatory ability with these important factors in the release of muscles after they have been contracted ( calcium helps the contraction).

When Sandra was off the Advair for several months, this cramping issue reduced a great deal, but even ten years later, she has to take a very large extra supplement of potassium and magnesium every day, to prevent muscle issues as a cyclist or diver. And this has completely eliminated the cramping issue...but only with daily supplementing that she is forced to do because of the Advair and an ass of a doctor.

A much smarter and BETTER Allergy doctor, that she saw after our own research showed the pharmaceutical issue involved, looked at her Sports asthma differently.....and suggested a different trigger was in play...and had her try using nasal irrigation with salt water.....See NeilMed Pharmaceuticals - Sinus Rinse Isotonic She began using this several times per day, two packets per bottle, one bottle per nostril/side of sinus....And this completely CURED the Asthma...or removed the trigger, however you want to discuss this.

My point is that taking Advair means taking a dangerous drug that MASKS asthma.....until it doen't....it is NOT a cure.

I think you should be thinking Freediving and no scuba until you can cure your Asthma, or remove your trigger.

 

[freewillie]

Advair may also create some viciously bad side effects. About 10 years ago, my wife Sandra was getting "Sports Asthma", triggered on fast bike rides by cold air on cold days.....The allergy doc she saw first, did the typical knee jerk reaction, and went with Big Pharma to treat the symptoms, and gave her Advair and the inhaler( albuterol)....While this did work.....within a few months, Sandra began getting problems with cramping and knotting of muscles......and on googling known issues of Advair use, I found one of the well known side effects that the "rear end of a donkey of an Allergy Doc" did not consider, was that Advair can cause potassioum and magnesium to be bound up, and your muscles lose key regulatory ability with these important factors in the release of muscles after they have been contracted ( calcium helps the contraction).

When Sandra was off the Advair for several months, this cramping issue reduced a great deal, but even ten years later, she has to take a very large extra supplement of potassium and magnesium every day, to prevent muscle issues as a cyclist or diver. And this has completely eliminated the cramping issue...but only with daily supplementing that she is forced to do because of the Advair and an ass of a doctor.

A much smarter and BETTER Allergy doctor, that she saw after our own research showed the pharmaceutical issue involved, looked at her Sports asthma differently.....and suggested a different trigger was in play...and had her try using nasal irrigation with salt water.....See NeilMed Pharmaceuticals - Sinus Rinse Isotonic She began using this several times per day, two packets per bottle, one bottle per nostril/side of sinus....And this completely CURED the Asthma...or removed the trigger, however you want to discuss this.

My point is that taking Advair means taking a dangerous drug that MASKS asthma.....until it doen't....it is NOT a cure.

I think you should be thinking Freediving and no scuba until you can cure your Asthma, or remove your trigger.

I've been debating on if I should be responding to this post. My first thought is to just let it go, I know Dan is an advocate of natural holistic approaches to health.

But, while the general public may have a distrust of Big Pharma, and the first allergist may indeed have been a pompous ass, his "knee jerk" use of Advair is actually standard medical care. It would be malpractice not to have tried at the very least a beta agonist like albuterol and depending on the type of asthma an inhaled steroid such as one of the components of Advair.

While it is true that a beta agonist can lower serum potassium the effects are short lived. In fact, an inhaled albuterol is occasionally used in emergencies to lower serum potassium if it is dangerously high, it is only a short term and temporary condition. In an emergency when the potassium is high you still have to treat with other medications to get the potassium levels down, the use of the albuterol is just to give you the extra time since some of the treatments may take some time before they work. But, just because that side effect is listed and well documented, it is not part of the medical profile to assume that a drug's effect that would last less than 30 minutes on potassium would have a lingering effect for over 10 years. Sorry, the connection just isn't there.

Also, Advair does not mask asthma, it TREATS the INFLAMMATION that is the underlying hallmark of the condition. To actually ignore the inflammation would be malpractice. Literally. And, since asthma has no cure, the goal is to treat the exacerbations and flares. But, make no mistake, that is not the same or equivalent of masking the condition. There is no cure. If the symptoms get better then the drug is doing what it is intended to, but the symptoms will return at some point if the drug is removed. That's just asthma.

To imply that a patient should stop standard medical care because you personally think the drug is dangerous is quite frankly irresponsible. If I am mistaken in my assumption then I apologize. And, to play devil's advocate, the patient who has well controlled asthma on medication my have serious and viciously bad side effects by NOT taking the medication either.

 

[danvolker]

I've been debating on if I should be responding to this post. My first thought is to just let it go, I know Dan is an advocate of natural holistic approaches to health.

But, while the general public may have a distrust of Big Pharma, and the first allergist may indeed have been a pompous ass, his "knee jerk" use of Advair is actually standard medical care. It would be malpractice not to have tried at the very least a beta agonist like albuterol and depending on the type of asthma an inhaled steroid such as one of the components of Advair.

While it is true that a beta agonist can lower serum potassium the effects are short lived. In fact, an inhaled albuterol is occasionally used in emergencies to lower serum potassium if it is dangerously high, it is only a short term and temporary condition. In an emergency when the potassium is high you still have to treat with other medications to get the potassium levels down, the use of the albuterol is just to give you the extra time since some of the treatments may take some time before they work. But, just because that side effect is listed and well documented, it is not part of the medical profile to assume that a drug's effect that would last less than 30 minutes on potassium would have a lingering effect for over 10 years. Sorry, the connection just isn't there.

Also, Advair does not mask asthma, it TREATS the INFLAMMATION that is the underlying hallmark of the condition. To actually ignore the inflammation would be malpractice. Literally. And, since asthma has no cure, the goal is to treat the exacerbations and flares. But, make no mistake, that is not the same or equivalent of masking the condition. There is no cure. If the symptoms get better then the drug is doing what it is intended to, but the symptoms will return at some point if the drug is removed. That's just asthma.

To imply that a patient should stop standard medical care because you personally think the drug is dangerous is quite frankly irresponsible. If I am mistaken in my assumption then I apologize. And, to play devil's advocate, the patient who has well controlled asthma on medication my have serious and viciously bad side effects by NOT taking the medication either.

To this I will just respond...once the nasal irrigation was used to remove the trigger, Sandra never had another Sports Asthma attack...so I am considering this a cure. Though this gets a little murky, as she still opts to irrigate whenever it is cold outside and we are doing fast rides...in any event, no more trigger, no more asthma. And no meds of any kind.

The better Allergy Doc did blame the Advair on the potassium binding problem. It is not nearly the issue it was 10 years ago, but it does require Sandra to take at least one Alacer Electromix packet per day--this being the electrolyte that works best for her. Prior to the Advair, this was not needed. In all fairness, she does 30 to 40 mile rides at a 22 to 25 mph pace behind me, 3 to 4 days per week....and you could say that this would create more of a demand for electrolytes than a sedentary person would have.....but prior to the advair, this would only have been an issue on very hot days.

My mindset, defective as it may sound to a Doctor of Western Medicine, is that Treating the inflammation with Advair does not address what caused the inflammation, so to me that is masking the real issue....treating a symptom --granted a nasty one . There "are" non-drug options for a person that has Sports induced asthma....it is not like this is debilitating 24 hours a days and requiring immediate drugs to prevent death!!!

 

[boulderjohn]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

I am going to move this thread to the diving medicine forum. I am going to caution folks on very good advice I received years ago. When it comes time to give medical advice, if you are not a doctor, keep this phrase in mind: "The doctor is not in." ScubaBoard is blessed with several knowledgeable medical experts who can chime in there. I look forward to what they have to say about this.

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