B-29 at Lake Mead

[Barnaby'sDad]

Yeah, that's what I don't get, actually. I was under the impression that just AN didn't cover mandatory deco dives, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Or are they riding the NDL so close that it's technically a rec dive but one more minute puts you into mandatory deco?

It doesn’t, per the TDI website (below). What people will do though is combine the two courses to get both certs.

The TDI Decompression Procedures Course combined with the TDI Advanced Nitrox course form the foundation of all other technical courses.

~116’ is toward the upper end of recreational limits. Assuming that you’re conservative with EAN30 @ 1.4...it doesn’t leave you with a whole lot of bottom time. ~16 min per the planner on my computer.

To make it worthwhile to leave the dock and gear up, I would think that most that would want to dive the B-29 are going to want to stick around on the bottom long enough that you’re going to accrue a deco obligation. Just my AOW newb two cents though.

 

[Joneill]

It is a thing. As is peak performance buoyancy.

Lol.

Apologies for de-railing the thread. That webpage made me do it.

I found Peak Performance Buoyancy to be a really good, focused course. I took it immediately after I completed Open Water. It helped a lot and felt like a logical extension to OW - so I’m glad it’s a thing!

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

Might be worth selling a kidney to do. My experience in Vegas is if you have to ask how much it is...you probably can't afford it.

I wonder how much, but not enough to call....

 

[wnissen]

It doesn’t, per the TDI website (below). What people will do though is combine the two courses to get both certs.

~116’ is toward the upper end of recreational limits. Assuming that you’re conservative with EAN30 @ 1.4...it doesn’t leave you with a whole lot of bottom time. ~16 min per the planner on my computer.

Exactly, and the route is 420 ft / 128m, so you'd have to be moving pretty steadily to cover it.

Might be worth selling a kidney to do. My experience in Vegas is if you have to ask how much it is...you probably can't afford it.

I wonder how much, but not enough to call....

Their regular 2-dive trip is $150, though that includes (currently unwanted) transport from your hotel, which is in the normal ballpark. But yes, probably pretty pricey.

 

[Rose Robinson]

That was my take as well. Not to mention if they can't be bothered to punctuate and capitalize on a site that is advertising their services, how careful are they with diving? It does seem like a really neat dive.



Yeah, that's what I don't get, actually. I was under the impression that just AN didn't cover mandatory deco dives, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Or are they riding the NDL so close that it's technically a rec dive but one more minute puts you into mandatory deco?

Hi wnissen,

Exactly.

What kind of a legitimate business has ''threatening violence'' in their list of mandatory requirements.

This isn't a dive where a diver would need a gas mix over 40%, in fact a back gas mix would be closer to 25% than it would be to 40%

Any short required deco could be easily accomplished with 40% or less. Beside, I highly doubt this ''guided'' dive lasts longer than 30 minutes, if that.

This list is little more than an opportunity to sell courses. I highly doubt that the National Parks Department, who is ''owner of record'' for the wreck has had any input at all in the operator's requirements.

I have been interested in diving the B-29 for years, unfortunately it's another on the list of ''Not Going to Happen''.

I can live with that, just as well as I can live without ever giving any of these fools my money.

Besides, I don't need a baby sitter to guide me around a recreational depth nav. line.

Other than two clinic dives, I have no rebreather experience, to me this would be a good rebreather dive, even with one of the NITROX type rebreathers.

Rose.

 

[broncobowsher]

... I highly doubt that the National Parks Department, who is ''owner of record'' for the wreck has had any input at all in the operator's requirements.

Very wrong on that part. The guy that found it, had his gear confiscated for I want to say over a year. I don't know him, but have a friend who does know him. The park service got all kinds of ugly about it when it was found.

The consolation was instead of 100% ban (what the park service wants) they allowed permits, and by permits I mean a single permit to a single operator, to run a charter out to it. That permit had all kinds of restrictions based on it being a deep technical wreck. The 40% O2 is for a deco gas because when the wreck was found and when the permit was issues it was a deep deco wreck.

You may not be paying attention to the water levels in Lake Mead (or its upstream neighbor Lake Powell) but the water levels in the past decade+ have dropped tremendously. 100' down from full. There is a serious long term drought in the American Southwest. Lake Mead is right at the edge of emergency water levels. Las Vegas that gets its water from Lake Mead went so far as to tunnel out a new water intake deeper in the lake since the old intake was threatening to go dry.

How this has impacted the B29 is the dive is now shallow. Yes, within recreational limits now. But it is still under the control of the Park Service which would still love to keep a 100% ban on anyone actually diving it. So much easier for a government agency to simply say no, stay away, our idea of management it to just ban everyone and that makes there life easier sine management is simply keeping everyone away. But there is this one permit (that a couple of times did not get renewed for a year) that allows a single operator access. There concession to actually allow the public into government lands. The permit was issued with the technical considerations of how the wreck was found. Nobody has successfully received a new permit to dive the wreck with the current water levels and only the need for recreational profiles.

So unless you can successfully get the park service to issue another permit without the technical dive requirements, you are stuck diving with the restrictions of the permit.

Good luck dealing with the United States Federal government on getting that permit. The park service would be much happier if the wreck was never found.

 

[Sam Miller III]

@Rose Robinson

Stated:

"This list is little more than an opportunity to sell courses. I highly doubt that the National Parks Department, who is ''owner of record'' for the wreck has had any input at all in the operator's requirements.

I have been interested in diving the B-29 for years, unfortunately it's another on the list of ''Not Going to Happen''.

I can live with that, just as well as I can live without ever giving any of these fools my money.

Besides, I don't need a baby sitter to guide me around a recreational depth nav. line."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rose
You certainly post interesting - and certainly very true comments...

However please bear in mid the customer base

This is designed for the modern vacation diver who has minimal training and minimal experience and NEEDS a guide for ALL dives. These experiences allows them return to their home and discuss at the next cocktail party or present a program to a civic organization.

So a B 29 sunk in lake Meade is a desirable attraction and addition to a LV jaunt

These events and participants and of course the operators are so necessary for the continued growth of diving community and industry.

But I do agree with you ! Keep up the good work

Samuel Miller, 111

 

[Tribal]

They have a bad way of advertising the dive. It’s very easy to prevent getting hit since even with a tiny brain you will be smart enough to not take stuff, but threatening with violence is never ok...

Apart from that I do understand why they want divers that have control about their movement and are able to do some light accelerated deco. With a bottom time of 30-45 minutes your deco will run way to high on backgas.

 

[Sam Miller III]

@Bronco
I have only minimal intest in the B 29 dive but
Wasn't the fellow from Brooklyn Joel Silverstein running tours for several years ?
Did he fold his operation?
Did new operator acquire the rights and now attempting to create interest ?

Samuel Miller.III

 

[Wookie]

Y'all are funny. The very minute Joel opens up space to dive the B-29, he is wait-listed. Anyone with a National Park Service Commercial Use Authorization is very much bound by the rules the NPS imposes on the dive site. I held a diving CUA for Dry Tortugas National Park, which allowed me to use the mooring buoy for 2 hours at a time. The mooring buoy I installed. I could have a maximum of 12 divers on the site. My boat held 24 divers. The list of requirements went on for a page, and the 600 page park compendium listed another 20 pages of requirements.

So you can whine and complain about his website, it probably won't matter much, it shows what kind of a person you are. He might pop in and show you his ass, or might not even bother. He has divers to take to the B-29. Next year.

Mea Culpa. I had no idea there were 2 operators with B-29 CUA's. I only knew of TDL, and not Las Vegas Scuba. My apologies for showing MY ass.