Bad vis. How bad is too bad?

[scubasaurus94]

I can't remember what the conditions were like where I first got certified, but I know that I have learned to adjust to and even enjoy low-viz dives over time. A new diver might not have that same opinion. It can also be unnerving to lead dives in low-viz conditions with certified divers, especially if you just met them; I can imagine that it's more stressful for an instructor with OW students. Stress is definitely not a good thing for instructors or students.

 

[FireInMyBones]

Diving in less than 2' viz...I hope not. Who hit the bottom? Diving for pleasure, I am always within arms reach of my buddy unless I am surveying a wreck and could get to my buddy within 5-10 seconds with viz in the 20'+ range.

With a class, I want to be able to see all of the students between the instructor and myself. Usually no less than 15' for a class of 6.

 

[Splitlip]

If I can't see lots of pretty fish, frankly it's no fun for me.

If I get reports of ~40ft, I'll think about doing something else. 30 foot range reports I will definitely waive off unless my buddies are counting on me.

If I splash by myself and find the viz is 20ft or less, I'm thumbing the dive.

 

[friscuba]

I used to dive 2-6 back in Oregon, was fine with it most times. Here in Kona I've seen less than 30-35 maybe 3-4 times the last 11 years, happened in the middle of a dive day. We offer not to go out when we know it's gonna be that poor, now that I'm charging, I feel it's not cool to try to keep an eye on a group of divers in viz much less than that.

Worst viz I've done was back in Oregon, 6' initially, which is OK for there, then got going and felt my buddy grab my calf... saw his hand, then didn't, then in the next 7-10 seconds I watched my leg and body disappear as the viz shrunk to 4-6 inches or so. My buddy litterally climbed up me and we stuck a depth gauge between our masks and held a light 2" from it while we surfaced. Turned out an incoming tide brought in a red tide. Tomato soup.

 

[CamG]

Greetings Jim and interesting thread. I really agree with what Bob DBF posted.
For personal dives I will dive in almost no vis however I know the site well and it becomes a training dive with use of a reel and buddy skills. When using a line and or touch communication the chances of buddy separation is managed.
If conditions degrade past that point there are only a select few buddies I would even consider diving with. They are very adept at handling themselves and rough conditions.
Like I mentioned these dives have specific goals and are more training or search and recovery dives.

As a DMC assisting OW / AOW training in visibility less that 6ft was about the point it was difficult. The instructor I assisted we ran tight buddy groups with touch contact if need be.
We ran a ratio of 1 to 1 on most dives and rarely over 1 to 2 on low vis training dives.
This was really pretty easy because of having three assistants it made it very controlled and safe.
We were always able to move to another location in the quarry to find better vis for the optimum training.
For the navigation dives we used the busy platform to test the students compass skills. But mind you these dives were carefully observed by the DM / DMCs.

Buddy skills are paramount when training in or diving low vis. It is not for everyone and I would rather have a new diver / buddy be honest and upfront. If they are uncomfortable I would not recommend they dive. It is best to be conservative and wait for better conditions.

CamG Keep diving....Keep training....keep learning!

 

[Kingpatzer]

I think it depends on the divers.

I would never suggest that new divers dive in less than about 10' of visibility (to me, that means that they can see an obvious shadow of another diver at 10' not that they can see clearly to that distance) , and only then if they felt comfortable doing so and were diving with a more experienced diver.

Around here that level of visibility does happen in many lakes (but not all) and many are better (particularly quarries and the great lakes. To me it's not a matter of teaching them proper buddy procedures (though of course that is necessary), it's a matter of them being inexperienced divers and should they run into any sort of issue, the lack of visibility could be a stressor which is simply not necessary for local diving.

But as a diver gains experience, some will gain the ability and confidence to deal with more adverse conditions. Some will not. And what's important is not if someone is capable of dealing with zero visibility, but that they are aware of what conditions they are comfortable dealing with, and dive within those parameters.

 

[fdog]

I have to admit this thread has been an entertaining one. It's as if people are subtly jumping on the "I'm an awesome diver" bandwagon by implying how comfortable they are in impossibly low visibility.

0-2 feet of vis. Wow. If you stretch your arm out in this vis, you wouldn't be able to see your hand!

I can understand diving in this if you are experienced and have a job to do...or if you just enjoy a dive in miserable conditions...but an OW student? One hiccup and you've lost contact. If something went wrong, I believe the legal term would be "twisting in the wind"...


All the best, James



As a P.S. : Last month I had the pleasure of diving the outer pinnacles of Point Lobos. As we returned to Whaler's Cove, the vis dropped...and dropped...until we were in ~6' of vis. My buddy has superb buoyancy, unhuman team skills, and we still had issues getting good verification on the 20' O2 switch.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I have to admit this thread has been an entertaining one. It's as if people are subtly jumping on the "I'm an awesome diver" bandwagon by implying how comfortable they are in impossibly low visibility.

0-2 feet of vis. Wow. If you stretch your arm out in this vis, you wouldn't be able to see your hand!

I have to agree to a degree.

I don't choose to dive in those sorts of conditions for fun - but I have done it many times for various S&R tasks. I have found myself in similar conditions when diving for "fun," but it stopped being fun once I was there. But that does not mean I was unprepared for such conditions, uncomfortable in such conditions, or unsafe in those conditions. The visibility was not too low for the dive, even if it was too low for me to enjoy it to any large degree (though I greatly enjoy the feeling of accomplishment of successfully retrieving someone's boat motor or whatever from zero viz so that is fun in it's own way).

But to suggest it is some form of ego stroking to say one can and does do such diving is seriously misconstruing the point and unfairly demonizing various posters. More xperienced divers in general will have superior skills to less experienced divers. Noting that point when answering a question about diving conditions being appropriate for divers of various skill levels is not only perfectly apt, it is necessary to the conversation. Noting one's own skill level is a means of establishing the context of the response. While it is certainly possible that some posters may exaggerate their own abilities, it is grossly uncharitable to presume that is case or intent.

 

[String]

Some people just enjoy being underwater so would quite happily find that fun. If local conditions are low vis and people want to dive locally they should train in low vis.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Some people just enjoy being underwater so would quite happily find that fun. If local conditions are low vis and people want to dive locally they should train in low vis.

So what about the people that certified in the DR, decided they absolutely loved diving and bought all the gear so they could dive at home in cold/low vis waters? They went about finding good competent dive buddies and approached dives safely by learning a site and working their way deeper and longer while learning. Only then did they choose to get their AOW meaning they went this whole time diving what they felt was safely without training in the cold/low vis conditions.

My point is to say that a diver must retrain for cold water/low vis is incorrect IMO. A good mentor and a solid approach to safe and cautious diving will give you more than a couple Instructor led dives.