BC/Wing Plate vs. Jacket-style BCD

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grunzster:
Yeah and once again, same here.

Wow 2 guys tried a BP on a few dives and had their faces pushed in the water, it must be true!

What about other gear that may have been clipped off, that may have added substantial weight to the front of the rig.

Once again, find me one current BP diver who claims they get their face pushed into the water on the surface, or who has problems getting into any position other than horizontal.

I do occassionally run into people who insist that all Back inflate BC's are a guaranteed faceplant. Some go on to tell me of their 20 year + diving experience, again insisting that they: Do dive a BackInflate, and it does force them on their face.

I can only conclude one of two things: If they are being honest, they have had a problem for 20+ years and haven't solved it, or they haven't really tried a BP&W when properly weighted. I'm not sure which is more troubling.......


Tobin
 
jgard:
The back mounted wings are good if you are doing technical stuff and having air bladders in front and beside you, get in the way. Other wise they are annoying because they seem to restrict your positioning in the water to either face up or face down. They seem to fight any position in between.

vastly different interpretations of the meaning of the word 'annoying'...

Niether my single-tank nor doubles wings have ever created anything even remotely similar to what you describe. I think the face-down thing is mostly urban legend material.

Personally, I wouldn't use a jacket bc for any type of diving...ok, well maybe in a pool to save my gear from the chlorine...
 
cyklon_300:
vastly different interpretations of the meaning of the word 'annoying'...

Niether my single-tank nor doubles wings have ever created anything even remotely similar to what you describe. I think the face-down thing is mostly urban legend material.

Personally, I wouldn't use a jacket bc for any type of diving...ok, well maybe in a pool to save my gear from the chlorine...

Funny, I recently bought a Seatec jacket style BC on ebay with the intent of using it in the pool. However, it is in such good condition (and it is almost identicle to the model I learned to dive with), I can't bring myself to bleach it out in the pool. Only paid $25 for it too. Maybe if I purposefully buy one in bad condition (good inner bladder, maybe scuffs or discoloration on the cover) :wink:

I would never _buy_ a Jacket style bc for normal diving. I would dive one though. I recently dove with my ebay Jacket BC and it worked fine. I could get neutral and the dive was mostly the same as a BP/W underwater. In the horizontal position, the air bubble is on your back anyhow, even with my old Seatec Jacket style BC. Doesn't mean I like Jackets (I dive a BP/W) just pointing out that it is not like they are entirely disfunctional. I dove a Jacket for about 12 years without problem, BP/W are just more ergonomic from my perspective. I rig my Jackets with a harness though, and that improves the fit enormously. I'm talking old style STAB Jackets with detachable plastic backplate/carrying handle, although I suspect more modern style Jackets (cumberbun, integrated harness, ...) are also not disfunctional.

And to make the point very clear, I am very excited about making the switch to a BP/W setup, I just think it is easy to get into an all or nothing position when reality doesn't usually like to get constrained in such a fashion.

I can spin around onto my back without problem on any of the rigs I use: no faceplant, stomach plant, or whatever for me. I can move about quite easily (summersaults (sp?) , jumps, ...). I suspect if I was more negatively loaded, I would need more air in the bladder to compensate, and it would come as no suprise to me that the location of that bubble would matter. I am typically rigging my gear with a horizontal foot down or head down concern rather than worrying about the effect of my gear on a vertical position, but I don't have problems on the surface even without that worry: one could always load up with weight and see if that mattered.

Oh, come to think of it, I did recover an item once in which I merely used my bc for the lift (bad idea but it was only in 20 feet of water). 30lb or so iron pry bar (6' long) in my hand, and at the surface I definately had a face plant :D
 
I've perused this thread looking for the Holy Grail answer to your question, as I have friends who have been asking it as well. However, it appears to me that there is and will continue to be disagreement about the answer: some say the diver need only be properly weighted and strapped to avoid face plants, and others say, no matter what, some will be planted at the surface in these BCs.
Is there any salient research that anyone can point me to that answers this question once and for all? If such a site was noted in this thread, perhaps I missed it?
Thanks...
 
Sorry, I neglected to include the actual question referenced in my preceding post: here it is..from DiverKim..

No one mentioned anything about disadvantages of a back plate wing BC. I'm considering the xchangeover but my brother who tested this type told me he was always being forced into the horizontal position and I know from previous experience that on the surface (with a Dive Rite) that one was always being pushed face forward. Has this tendency been dealt with?
 
There is no site that I know if with any data to back up this claim.

BUT...

If you search all the threads on this topic, as I stated earlier, a VERY large majority of those who make the face plant claim have only used a BP maybe a few times, and some even make that claim without ever even diving one.
 
Well, if you really want to avoid being pushed forward with a BP/Wing setup and prefer a jacket BC for that reason, use the old horse collar bc's ... you'll be so upright that your buddies can simply pour beer down your throat while you're waiting to be picked up.:D

BTW, I use a a BP/Wing and couldn't care less if it pushes me forward (so what). I don't feel restricted and feel more streamlined. To each his own...
 
If I've known about back plates and wings after my AOW,I would not have purchased a regular bc.I'm using b/p now and wish i had started with it .You can learn more about b/p ,harness and wings here before you start buying.My diving skills has been elevated to a higher level using the b/p. This board has a treasure trove of info on this subject.
 
SeaKat:
I've perused this thread looking for the Holy Grail answer to your question, as I have friends who have been asking it as well. However, it appears to me that there is and will continue to be disagreement about the answer: some say the diver need only be properly weighted and strapped to avoid face plants, and others say, no matter what, some will be planted at the surface in these BCs.
Is there any salient research that anyone can point me to that answers this question once and for all? If such a site was noted in this thread, perhaps I missed it?
Thanks...

SeaKat,

I'm not trying to be flippant, but this is the site. Who's authority would satisfy you? Are you looking for a "Consumers Reports" test or research study?

Scubaboard is just that, unfiltered, with all the warts and biases on display. The overwhelming opinion here is that if properly weighed and using a crotch strap, BP&W's don't force your face in the water.

1000's of divers are using them worldwide. Who else do you need to hear it from?

Keep in mind several things:

Many shops denigrate BP&W's because they don't sell them, and have a financial interest in selling what they do stock (jackets)

Unfortunately many instructors want their students overweighted, and vertical, it makes their job easier. Sadly many don't know any better themselves.

Most who claim that BP&W will faceplant you have never used one...........


Regards,


Tobin
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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