Big closed SMB (Carter?)

[gsk3]

Hi folks,

I'm pondering an SMB purchase, and have more or less settled on the following requirements:
-Yellow
-8 to 10 feet or so. I've seen plenty of 6 footers and I'd feel better with something a little taller.
-Ideally not more than 50lbs lift (may conflict with the 10lbs requirement!)
-Closed bag with LP inflator attachment
-Well-built

The real purpose of this bag will be for getting blown off the line in Jersey diving, therefore I feel the above requirements make sense. I will also likely get one of the 1m Halcyon or DSS jobbies for more mundane "hey dive boat I'm coming up where you expect me now" purposes, but that's a discussion for another day.

So my question is, what bag best satisfies those requirements? I rather like the Carter Super Sausage CBSS-25, although it's a little short (8'). Does anyone know if it has an LP hose inflation option? The description says just says "oral inflation valve," but surely a bag that big has an LP option? It's definitely a closed bag ("totally enclosed"). Curiously, it is listed as having only 0.4 cubic feet of volume at the surface, which I calculate to be 25lbs of lift. Is that because it's only 3.5 inches wide? Would I be better off with something much wider but shorter (seems to me the Halcyons I've seen in person were more like 6 inches wide)?

Thanks!

 

[RJP]

Hi folks,

I'm pondering an SMB purchase, and have more or less settled on the following requirements:
-Yellow
-8 to 10 feet or so. I've seen plenty of 6 footers and I'd feel better with something a little taller.
-Ideally not more than 50lbs lift (may conflict with the 10lbs requirement!)
-Closed bag with LP inflator attachment
-Well-built

The real purpose of this bag will be for getting blown off the line in Jersey diving, therefore I feel the above requirements make sense. I will also likely get one of the 1m Halcyon or DSS jobbies for more mundane "hey dive boat I'm coming up where you expect me now" purposes, but that's a discussion for another day.

So my question is, what bag best satisfies those requirements? I rather like the Carter Super Sausage CBSS-25, although it's a little short (8'). Does anyone know if it has an LP hose inflation option? The description says just says "oral inflation valve," but surely a bag that big has an LP option? It's definitely a closed bag ("totally enclosed"). Curiously, it is listed as having only 0.4 cubic feet of volume at the surface, which I calculate to be 25lbs of lift. Is that because it's only 3.5 inches wide? Would I be better off with something much wider but shorter (seems to me the Halcyons I've seen in person were more like 6 inches wide)?

Thanks!

Most of us here in NJ use a "standard issue" lift-bag such as the Halcyon 60 Semi-Closed:

You can also bump up to the closed circuit 80 or 185:

CC80:

CC185:

But those two are frickin' bears to pack or stow in any simple/standard fashion.

Personally, I carry the Halcyon Semi-Closed 60 for lift-bag and SMB purposes, which is easy to fill at depth without needing to go to LP hose. I back the lift-bag up with the 6' SMB "Super Big" Diver's Alert Marker in cases where I might be worried about a semi-closed flopping over. You can read my mini reviews of these two items at the bottom of the pages at these links:

Halcyon Lift Bags at www.DiveSeekers.com

Halcyon 6' SMB "Super Big" Diver's Alert Marker at www.DiveSeekers.com

Give Wayne or Jason over at www.DiveSeekers.com a call. They are NJ divers through and through. Tell them you're from ScubaBoard and that I sent you - they'll set you up with the best gear for NJ diving. Whether Halcyon, DiveRite or any of the other manufacturers they stock.

 

[Scott L]

I am of the opionion that the standard lift bag is easier to spot but there is plenty of dissent on this issue...

 

[gsk3]

Hi RJP,

I didn't do a great job of explaining myself I'm afraid. I'm fine with the idea of a lift bag or 1m SMB for everyday signaling the boat that I'm coming up. I'm looking for an "oh shoot I'm not going to make the anchor line, will be drifting where the boat won't necessarily expect me, and want to get up something highly visible (thus the fluoro yellow and 8-10' requirements) ASAP to ascend on so that the boat can start tracking me for pickup as soon as they've pulled the anchor line" bag.

Thanks,
Ari

P.S. I've seen the Halcyon lift bags fold nicely into the MC pack. Bob showed WVMike how to do it during our Fundies class, and it works beautifully (comes out with a single tug).

 

[RJP]

Hi RJP,

I didn't do a great job of explaining myself I'm afraid.

Nope, I got it.

When you say "oh shoot, I'm not going to make the anchor line" I'm assuming you mean you're on the wreck and lost, and won't make it back to the line. Or that you need to ascend NOW for some reason. If that's the case you shoot your bag from the bottom, and tie your line off to the wreck. Then you ascend and do your stops/deco on the line you just shot. But you're still on the wreck so you're not going anywhere. Regardless of current and/or the size of the wreck you won't be far from the boat, and you'll be easily spotted. We'd probably swim a line out to your bag.

If you're talking about being OFF the wreck - looking for scallops or outlying debris for instance - and realizing you won't make it back then you oughta be on a reel. So simply reel yourself back to the wreck, and shoot a bag from there. Or ascend on the line you've got back to the wreck, lock your reel at your first stop depth, shoot a bag from there using a backup spool, and clip the spool off to your reel. Now you and your bag are doing your stops/deco tied in to the wreck.

If you're talking about getting blown clean off the wreck or the line; well then you've got problems that should have been solved/avoided before getting to that point. How deep are you talking? If deep enough to be so narc'd you lose the wreck, then you shouldn't be that deep or you should be on TMx.

Carrying more gear than is required/appropriate to the dive - and those problems you are likely to encounter - is imprudent. Especially if you lose the wreck due to being narc'd.

If you've dove off NJ then you know that the boat is tied in, and with the likelihood that there would be divers still in the water, doing stops/deco on the anchor or Carolina rig, the boat may not be coming to get you for quite a while. If there's enough current that you're worried about it, then even with a gigantic SMB you could be L-O-N-G gone before the boat has the chance to come get you. You'd be better off gearing/planning for NOT losing the wreck than carrying a ridiculously over-sized SMB that is more likely to bring you (or your body) all the way to the surface as you try to fill it.

Seriously. If conditions are such you you think you'll likely need something more than the 6' Halcyon SMB, you shouldn't be in the water that day.

 

[SangP]

Getting blown off the line happens more often than you think n I myself have gone off course quite a few times. A mile or 2 km away n you 6' bag looks like a pin prick even if it's 8' or 10' it doesn't make it that much more visible. The best thing to have in cases of emergency is a reasonably long smb (Carter Super Sausage CBSS-25 would do nicely if a bit big) with a reflective strips, a mirror of sorts and a strobe flash for night dives.

SangP

 

[gsk3]

How deep are you talking? If deep enough to be so narc'd you lose the wreck, then you shouldn't be that deep or you should be on TMx.

Carrying more gear than is required/appropriate to the dive - and those problems you are likely to encounter - is imprudent. Especially if you lose the wreck due to being narc'd.

If you've dove off NJ then you know that the boat is tied in, and with the likelihood that there would be divers still in the water, doing stops/deco on the anchor or Carolina rig, the boat may not be coming to get you for quite a while. If there's enough current that you're worried about it, then even with a gigantic SMB you could be L-O-N-G gone before the boat has the chance to come get you. You'd be better off gearing/planning for NOT losing the wreck than carrying a ridiculously over-sized SMB that is more likely to bring you (or your body) all the way to the surface as you try to fill it.

I'm an extremely conservative diver. I agree that if you're deep enough to be narked you should be on TMx (although you're the first diver in these parts that I've heard say that ;-) ). My two Jersey dives so far I tied a reel into the anchor line as I was taught. I was also taught, and have heard from a few others, that wrecks are notorious for cutting line when you tie off to them and have your own ascent line. My understanding is that that, plus biodegradability, was the reason for the invention of the sisal Jersey line/spools.

I try to read the accidents/incidents forum regularly, and there are a number of near-misses which seem to have been averted through the use of an SMB. The boat sees it, notes which direction you're drifting in, and then heads in that direction to find you, even if you're long gone by then. Not saying it will work every time, but it's better than nothing.

I'm all for not bringing equipment that you aren't likely to need, but given the compactness of a single SMB, it seems silly not to carry it. I've seen plenty of folks around here carrying an orange SMB + a yellow SMB + a lift bag....

 

[RJP]

My two Jersey dives so far I tied a reel into the anchor line as I was taught.

If you were taught to tie into the anchor line, you need to be re-taught. The anchor line moves, which can surely cut your line. But worse, anchor lines can pull out. If you're tied to it... you're going for a ride.

I was also taught, and have heard from a few others, that wrecks are notorious for cutting line when you tie off to them.

The chance of a wreck "cutting" a line drops to ZERO if you tie properly, run the line properly, wrap properly, etc.

I try to read the accidents/incidents forum regularly, and there are a number of near-misses which seem to have been averted through the use of an SMB.

Re-read them again and see what could have been done to avert the underlying problem.

I'm all for not bringing equipment that you aren't likely to need, but given the compactness of a single SMB, it seems silly not to carry it.

Yup, which is why I carry a standard lift bag and a 6' Halcyon SMB. Carrying more than that - quantity-wise or size-wise - is unnecessary. (Though there are certain protocols on some teams where a yellow bag means one thing and an orange one means something else, but if that's not common/known it does you no good.)

I've seen plenty of folks around here carrying an orange SMB + a yellow SMB + a lift bag....

I work on a NJ dive boat... I see people carry all kinds of sh!t. Most of it makes no sense.

:cool2:

 

[gsk3]

If you were taught to tie into the anchor line, you need to be re-taught. The anchor line moves, which can surely cut your line. But worse, anchor lines can pull out. If you're tied to it... you're going for a ride.

I had indeed been taught to the anchor line, although you're not the first person to correct me. It'll sink in yet ;-)

The chance of a wreck "cutting" a line drops to ZERO if you tie properly, run the line properly, wrap properly, etc.

I would love to learn how to tie, run, and wrap properly. Will have to coordinate schedules on the Gypsy Blood if you're willing to show me sometime.

Re-read them again and see what could have been done to avert the underlying problem.

Ha. Fair 'nuff.

Yup, which is why I carry a standard lift bag and a 6' Halcyon SMB. Carrying more than that - quantity-wise or size-wise - is unnecessary. (Though there are certain protocols on some teams where a yellow bag means one thing and an orange one means something else, but if that's not common/known it does you no good.)

All of this presumes you will never be in a drift situation. While I don't ever intend to be in a drifting situation, I sure as heck would like to have the proper tools when I am. There have been a few DAN Lessons for Life articles which detailed situations in which the boat left (didn't count # of passengers) or wasn't there for some other reason (stupid things like not leaving a captain onboard). Honestly, a lot of my stubbornness here comes from this thread:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ge...ignalling-equipment-searchers-point-view.html
And from this:
Lost (And Found) At Sea | Scuba Diving Magazine

There's also this study:
Diver location trials: Discussion
"The use colours other than red or orange should always be considered."

I work on a NJ dive boat... I see people carry all kinds of sh!t. Most of it makes no sense.

No arguments here.