Mantra
Contributor
Like Matt, I'm a newbie to scuba and this board, and might have some perspective because of that.
I was on the internet before we knew that was what it was called, back in the days when you'd listen to the hiss and skwawk of your 300 baud modem handshaking with a BBS some guy (later to become a dot com multimillionaire) was running out of his mother's basement. I'm a literature professor, but my masters was about online communities because I've participated in them since I was an early teenager and have always been fascinated by what we are doing now - reaching out and swapping ideas with people who are interested in stuff we are interested in too. There are fancy terms for this - Habermasian dialogue, situated ambient learning in a community of practice, legitimate peripheral participation, blah blah, but what we are talking about is shop talk.
I reckon that when people with expertise get into shop talk, there's often an element of venting. When my colleagues and I gather around the proverbial water cooler, it's often the frustrating students or the occult bureaucratic practices of our employer we will talk about. We will bitch and moan. It would sound bitter to an overhearer - but the fact is, we are dedicated and love what we do. It's a kind of problem solving, to talk about this stuff in this way. It's a kind of self-check (do others feel how I feel). It's a kind of camaraderie, and if we sound aggrieved it's because we care enough to be. It's shop talk.
Part of shop talk in online communities is talking about the shop talk. I'm yet to see a community that doesn't self-reflect as this one is doing now. Things were better before. Things were worse before. Newbies are wrecking the joint in an Eternal September. The establishment is cliquey and stifling and their ettiquite is outmoded. Etc. Its good and healthy for a community to self-monitor.
I've settled on this place as my online scuba home because it's a good community. I visited several others. People here have been exceptionally generous to me with their time and insight in answering questions (as I'm sure you will agree they have been with you, Matt).
That said, yeah, there is a tone of exasperation here sometimes. I don't think that is being imagined. Check out the seven kinds of eye-rolling going on in this one thread! Ha. I note the various digs made at you here, Matt, and note that there is a general suspicion of 'newness' in this community.
I'm inclined to read much of that as passionate people caring about a sport they love; a sport that can be dangerous if not treated with respect. Newbies are problematic in the water in a bunch of ways, procedurally and attitudinally. Maybe that suspicion of newbies (and this might be a very caring, justified, safety-based suspicion) in terms of dive numbers carries over here as part of a broader culture. The gang here seems closer knit than in many places, with a comparative few being quite visible. And so on, and so: shop talk.
There are other factors too, I reckon. Doctors might be a homogenous bunch - certain socioeconomic backgrounds and personality types are more likely to enter that profession than others. Liberal arts professors tend to be likewise sameish. I'm inclined to think that this sport is more catholic. The people I've met thus far are from a wide variety of backgrounds, from those cashed-up plumbers who appeared earlier in the thread to military types to engineers to retirees to college students etc. I love that about this sport. Cultures and personalities seem to vary a lot in the scuba community. Some will be prickly and combative. Some will be peacemakers. I read you, Matt, as one of the latter. That makes you a good guy in my books. But I'm partial to ornery iconoclastic bastards too.
I guess what I'm saying is yeah, I see it. I don't think it's a problem. I think in a heterogenous group that values competency and pragmatism and individuality over conformity you get this. I think the community here has standards of etiquette and tries to self-monitor them. I don't think any one-size-fits-all way of being will ever work here.
I think raising this sort of question is healthy and useful.
I think it's also fair to read your question as implicitly judgmental and a little patronizing. If you got noses out of joint, look to your stereotyping of instructors both in terms of attitude and socioeconomic class.
I think if the community got too lovey-dovey it would lose something. I think personal attacks and downright rudeness should be shot down when seen.
I think the moderators are doing an amazing job, and we all owe them thanks and beers. What they do ain't easy, and let this thread be a reminder of that. Despite it all, the cats seem to me largely well herded here, the occasional hiss and spit notwithstanding.
I think this place is healthily imperfect. Me likey.
Peace out.
Or don't.
I was on the internet before we knew that was what it was called, back in the days when you'd listen to the hiss and skwawk of your 300 baud modem handshaking with a BBS some guy (later to become a dot com multimillionaire) was running out of his mother's basement. I'm a literature professor, but my masters was about online communities because I've participated in them since I was an early teenager and have always been fascinated by what we are doing now - reaching out and swapping ideas with people who are interested in stuff we are interested in too. There are fancy terms for this - Habermasian dialogue, situated ambient learning in a community of practice, legitimate peripheral participation, blah blah, but what we are talking about is shop talk.
I reckon that when people with expertise get into shop talk, there's often an element of venting. When my colleagues and I gather around the proverbial water cooler, it's often the frustrating students or the occult bureaucratic practices of our employer we will talk about. We will bitch and moan. It would sound bitter to an overhearer - but the fact is, we are dedicated and love what we do. It's a kind of problem solving, to talk about this stuff in this way. It's a kind of self-check (do others feel how I feel). It's a kind of camaraderie, and if we sound aggrieved it's because we care enough to be. It's shop talk.
Part of shop talk in online communities is talking about the shop talk. I'm yet to see a community that doesn't self-reflect as this one is doing now. Things were better before. Things were worse before. Newbies are wrecking the joint in an Eternal September. The establishment is cliquey and stifling and their ettiquite is outmoded. Etc. Its good and healthy for a community to self-monitor.
I've settled on this place as my online scuba home because it's a good community. I visited several others. People here have been exceptionally generous to me with their time and insight in answering questions (as I'm sure you will agree they have been with you, Matt).
That said, yeah, there is a tone of exasperation here sometimes. I don't think that is being imagined. Check out the seven kinds of eye-rolling going on in this one thread! Ha. I note the various digs made at you here, Matt, and note that there is a general suspicion of 'newness' in this community.
I'm inclined to read much of that as passionate people caring about a sport they love; a sport that can be dangerous if not treated with respect. Newbies are problematic in the water in a bunch of ways, procedurally and attitudinally. Maybe that suspicion of newbies (and this might be a very caring, justified, safety-based suspicion) in terms of dive numbers carries over here as part of a broader culture. The gang here seems closer knit than in many places, with a comparative few being quite visible. And so on, and so: shop talk.
There are other factors too, I reckon. Doctors might be a homogenous bunch - certain socioeconomic backgrounds and personality types are more likely to enter that profession than others. Liberal arts professors tend to be likewise sameish. I'm inclined to think that this sport is more catholic. The people I've met thus far are from a wide variety of backgrounds, from those cashed-up plumbers who appeared earlier in the thread to military types to engineers to retirees to college students etc. I love that about this sport. Cultures and personalities seem to vary a lot in the scuba community. Some will be prickly and combative. Some will be peacemakers. I read you, Matt, as one of the latter. That makes you a good guy in my books. But I'm partial to ornery iconoclastic bastards too.
I guess what I'm saying is yeah, I see it. I don't think it's a problem. I think in a heterogenous group that values competency and pragmatism and individuality over conformity you get this. I think the community here has standards of etiquette and tries to self-monitor them. I don't think any one-size-fits-all way of being will ever work here.
I think raising this sort of question is healthy and useful.
I think it's also fair to read your question as implicitly judgmental and a little patronizing. If you got noses out of joint, look to your stereotyping of instructors both in terms of attitude and socioeconomic class.
I think if the community got too lovey-dovey it would lose something. I think personal attacks and downright rudeness should be shot down when seen.
I think the moderators are doing an amazing job, and we all owe them thanks and beers. What they do ain't easy, and let this thread be a reminder of that. Despite it all, the cats seem to me largely well herded here, the occasional hiss and spit notwithstanding.
I think this place is healthily imperfect. Me likey.
Peace out.
Or don't.
